McLaren's appeal set for Nov 15th

vikiradTG2007

vikiradTG2007

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The appeal against the Stewards' decision not to DSQ Rosberg, Kubica and Heidfeld from the Brazilian GP, which would have propelled Hamilton up to 4th in the results and gifting him the WDC, has been set by the FIA for November 15th.

Opinions on the verdict and its eventual consequences?
 
I think there is more validity to this situation, then the spygate situation.

At least here, there may have been a direct on-track advantage for the BMW/Williams team that can be proven. If there was, then the rules should be followed. F1 shouldn't have so many double standards, it'll only hurt the sport. There are already too many examples of acts of cheating, but some get punished while others get overlooked. That's embarrassing for the sport, IMO. Watching people argue and point out situations where cheating was overlooked and excused, while other times a team gets an incredibly harsh penalty.

I think McLaren should do everything they can to get Williams disqualified, but then refuse to accept the Driver's Championship from Ferrari. Kimi could keep his trophy, while McLaren can have the satisfaction knowing that they allowed Ferrari to keep it.
 
I know what McLaren is trying to do, and I call BS.

The championship is over. After results have been finalized, they shouldn't be changed -- results should be based on performance, not politics.

Get over it, Ron, you'll just have to wait until next year.

But Hamilton has said he does not want to win an F1 title through disqualifications for other drivers.
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Good. Sounds like he's got some integrity.
 
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for fucks sake, can?t they just give it a rest???
as far as I?m concerned 2007 could have been the best formula one season we?ve seen in quite a while, had it not been for all the legal crap going on in the background...

I?ve been a total McLaren fan ever since the first time I actually went to see a race, and I would have really liked to see Hamilton win, but it?s starting to seem like the sport is more about the quality of your lawyers than that of your car and your drivers...

epp_b said:
Although, I'm trying to remember, on what basis should the said drivers be disqualified?
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wasn?t it something about the fuel temperature?
 
Ford Prefect said:
wasn?t it something about the fuel temperature?
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Yes, the fuel temperature in the rig cannot drop 10 ?C. below the ambient temperature on race day. What happened was, the meteorological data that some teams used to determine their fuel temperature was off... by a lot.

TomCat said:
At least here, there may have been a direct on-track advantage for the BMW/Williams team that can be proven.
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That's the problem, since no one measures the temperature of the fuel inside the car, there's no way to prove that BMW/Williams had a performance advantage. The fuel in their rigs was more than 10 ?C too cold at some pit stops, but who knows what happened to the temperature when the fuel was pumped into the car...
 
Whatever happened, the fuel was colder and therefore gave an advantage...the thing is that I doubt it gave a 15 second advantage, and that was the gap between Nick and Lewis...
 
The teams should be punished, but not in terms of points and positions, in terms of a fine. Do you think it's fair that McLaren get's punished or scrutinized for the slightest things they do, whereas, when something happens to another team, they just blatently let it go? Hypocrisy at it's finest.

I don't doubt that the fuel temperature matter could have very well been accidental, however, the teams should be fined for not making sure their cars were exactly to race spec when they took to the track.

I don't think McLaren is wrong in appealing, and I am quite sure that they are probably not expecting performance or points based punishment either.
 
I think there is more validity to this situation, then the spygate situation.
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That has to be the dumbest statement of the year. Firstly, not only is it well documented that McLarent was in possession of Ferrari data, they were ACTUALLY USING IT. Over many races, to a serious advantage. Did anyone notice what happened to both teams once the story broke? Ferrari up, McLaren down. And they obtained it using white-collar industrial espionage, which is far more deliberate, serious and downright disgusting than some tech messing up a fuel temp reading.

Fuel temp is at worst a screw-up that gave a slow car an advantage for a few seconds.

Comparing the two, really, is like comparing a grenade's effect to the Chernobyl meltdown.

What else can we expect on a rabidly pro-Brit board where McLaren despite cheating, whining and bad management can do no wrong whereas Ferrari which took everything on the chin and just fuckin' RACED are the bad guys. How much whining did we hear from Lewis and Alonso this year? Enough to make my ears bleed. How much did we hear from Kimi and Massa? Not a peep.

Yep, McLaren got SCROOED BY THE EVIL FERRARI... rewind, play, rewind, play.
 
As I said before, I'm sure the only reason McLaren are bringing this up and chasing it is because the courts took their constructors points (and a lot of money). They got fucked by a court, they figure they might as well use the same crap process to their advantage to try to even it up a bit.

I'd criticize them for doing this if it wasn't for the constructors ban and fine, but as it is, I don't mind.

Samir said:
they were ACTUALLY USING IT. Over many races, to a serious advantage.
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The FIA and courts disagree with you. I'd like to know what information you have that Ferrari, the FIA and the appeal courts didn't. Actually no, I wouldn't, this has been discussed to death.
 
Samir said:
That has to be the dumbest statement of the year. Firstly, not only is it well documented that McLarent was in possession of Ferrari data, they were ACTUALLY USING IT. Over many races, to a serious advantage. Did anyone notice what happened to both teams once the story broke? Ferrari up, McLaren down. And they obtained it using white-collar industrial espionage, which is far more deliberate, serious and downright disgusting than some tech messing up a fuel temp reading.

Fuel temp is at worst a screw-up that gave a slow car an advantage for a few seconds.

Comparing the two, really, is like comparing a grenade's effect to the Chernobyl meltdown.

What else can we expect on a rabidly pro-Brit board where McLaren despite cheating, whining and bad management can do no wrong whereas Ferrari which took everything on the chin and just fuckin' RACED are the bad guys. How much whining did we hear from Lewis and Alonso this year? Enough to make my ears bleed. How much did we hear from Kimi and Massa? Not a peep.

Yep, McLaren got SCROOED BY THE EVIL FERRARI... rewind, play, rewind, play.
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Are you smoking crack?

Fact: The only one in possession of the data was Coughlan
Fact: The only persons with direct knowledge from the data: Coughlan, Alonso, and de la Rosa

Everything else, absolutely everything, is based on conjecture and suspicion.

There is neither any knowledge, nor proof that anything else was done.
 
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Right. Coughlan, Alonso and De La Rosa. You know, none of those guys had a major role in McLaren or anything [sacrasm].

Like I said, McLaren got caught with their pants down and demonstrated horrible sportmanship all season long. Their drivers were more irritating to listen to than TMZ.com's nightly updates on Lindsey Lohan. Yet it's all Ferrari's fault. Boo hoo hoo...
 
I hope that the FIA will rule fairly in this case. Which will be either that the points will be stripped off the teams and not the drivers, or that there will be a fine imposed on the teams. This shouldn't affect the WDC, but this is a violation of the rules. Not punishing that would be weak, teams and drivers have been punished for less.
 
Not to get off topic here, but what ever happened to the renault charges that McLaren was going to make?
 
I hope McLaren dont win Lewis the title this way, otherwise 2007 is a waste of a season.
 
its not going to happen, the most FIA will do is take points off the team, but not from the drivers, since the drivers has no part in the fuel regulation problem.

shame on you mclaren.
 
Samir said:
Right. Coughlan, Alonso and De La Rosa. You know, none of those guys had a major role in McLaren or anything [sacrasm].

Like I said, McLaren got caught with their pants down and demonstrated horrible sportmanship all season long. Their drivers were more irritating to listen to than TMZ.com's nightly updates on Lindsey Lohan. Yet it's all Ferrari's fault. Boo hoo hoo...
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Yeah, cause, you know, Coughlan, Alonso and Rosa totally build the cars on their own right?

Good one.
 
McLaren need to drop this appeal - their driver doesn't want to win the title this way, and it's highly doubtful any performance gain to Williams & BMW was significant enough to account for the gap between them and Lewis. I'm a McLaren supporter, but this appeal does nothing for the sport or the team.
 
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