I've heard of people taking car hoods and engine blocks through, wheels wouldn't be hard.@RdKetchup is going to Germany in July. I bet he could put a set of wheels in his luggage.
Ownership Verified: Miami Weiß - My 1989 Chevrolet Corvette C4
- Thread starter Mitchi
- Start date
samulis
Active Member
Took a few days to read through. Great car and just right year and specs. Would shag.
No worries, I hope you enjoyed your stay. And because you asked me for feedback on my car, I'm going to do what @public and post the exakt reply to you from Telegramz to here, based on my other impressions post regarding that motorweek retro review.
The questions were:
How does C4 compare to Miata on how it feels to drive? Mainly how suspension and steering feedback feels. Power and grip are on other level on C4, but how do brakes compare?
Excellent question. Let me elaborate a little.
In terms of options my car is the best C4 you could buy at the time bar the ZR-1: I got the Z51 performance pack (3-way electronical adjustable Bilstein dampers, quicker steering rack, slightly stiffer leaf springs), the optional big brake kit (same calipers as 400hp ZR-1!), big cooling package (oil and water).
I can imagine that other C4's don't feel as sporty as mine does; I reckon the 6-speed and Bilsteins aswell as the 17's (275/40's) make a big difference compared to most automatic C4s with 4-speed automatic and small brakes ( for most the C4 is notorious for having poor braking performance, that's pretty much why). Also, remember that the C4 is the first completely new engineered Corvette since the C1, meaning C1-C2-C3 are more identical to each other than most people would like to admit, and drive respectively. Hell, the manual gearbox alone allows this car to be a sportscar and a cruiser at the same time; automatic C4's are only half the car - the latter.
How does it handle on a backroad?
I generally leave the car in the softest damper settings (that's mostly me liking softly sprung setups), but they act more like an active rollbar, as stiffening them makes the car roll much less, yet the car still likes to wallow a little on the hardest setting - you're coming into the limits of what a leaf spring can do in sporty circumstances. I imagine with a more modern coilover setup the C4 isn't much off in terms of handling of a supposedly much better handling (kinda doubt) C5. The car's chassis could be a little stiffer though (mods are available and will be done one day).
The Z51 steering rack is really fast. Almost too fast. Not sure about the stock rack though. Steering feels quite heavy, but not by too much. Feedback is pretty much on point, as it's often the case with older sports cars and their hydraulic racks, allowing me to pin point the car perfectly. Genuinly as good as in my MX-5's. It's currently a little vague around the center, but that's due to me having to replace some arms.
Gearbox is heavy and clunky in lower speeds, a little like driving a tank or a Viper (apparently), but comes alive at higher speeds. Suddenly going 2-3-4-5 goes smoother and quicker than first anticipated. Shifting even with the stock dual mass flywheel under full acceleration needs no pause for the revs to drop, just row the gears, almost feels like flat-shifting. Compared to an MX-5, throws are quite a bit bigger, but it also feels like the gearbox is physically twice the size.
Heel and toe'ing is possible under heavier braking. When I only brake with little force I can barely twist my foot around enough (size 45 shoes). But the car only needs a very short blip, as throttle is instant (cable, what else). Torque for acceleration is as low down as 900-1000 rpms, revs to 4700 (ideal shift point), or technically 5300+ (have never revved it higher, apparently engines runs out of breath at 6000, no rev limiter in ECU afaik). The car also likes to be driven more on torque than on power, as the car is choked so much on top, kinda like driving a Diesel or an eta BMW (never driven one, but that's how Beni once told me his old E28 was).
Braking performance is really good once you get used to the fact that this isn't a modern car with an overboosted brake booster that stops the car once you breath on the braking pedal. You have to use quite some force but once you do, you stop more than quick enough. The tougher braking force also allows for some good trail-braking into corners with left-foot-braking, bro (there's a reason race cars need high braking force.
).Speaking of, the car turns in very, very good. It has happened a few times that I had to correct the rear end stepping out. So much for the expectation of most people that this is just an understeering boat - it really isn't, it's a genuine drivers car. Engine sits a little behind the front axle, yet it's not even a transaxle like a 944 or the C5 and newer generations.
I always say the C4 feels a little like the MX-5 NA/NB do.
---
Also, I haven't really updated the thread in a while. Some stuff has happened, albeit way less than I'd loved to have happened.
Will do an update soon.
But first, I'd like to use this moment and clarify not only towards the internet in general, but also the five people who read this post in how the C4 is viewed vs. how it should be viewed.
The internet (and especially salty C5 owners, who have the _better_ car yet not quite a C6) love to hate on the C4. And it's easy to make fun of it. But when they do it, let me do the same:
Yes, it's still the cheapest Corvette you can buy, but that doesn't make it bad. I'd rather be seen laughing at the kind of money people are seem to be throwing at C3's now - if you pay twice or thrice the price of a C4 for a C3, just to be able to say you have one of the "real" Corvettes made out of metal rather than plastic and to have a rawer feeling, then this might be a thing for you, but it's certainly not worth the money. C3's which aren't in 100% showroom condition are falling apart just by looking at them, while C4's can be had in decent conditions for a small amount of money (and small running costs, this is still one of the cheapest cars I've owned). The build quality of C4's is by far not as bad as people make it out to be, albeit I still think the facelifted 90s C4's are actually a little worse in that term compared to my prefacelift 80s version.
And in terms of handling, the C4 will drive circles around any C3 - while feeling 95% as much of a hotrod as the C3 does, I give you my word.
The C4 drives like a totally modern car and you can feel it was developed for the 80s, being a new design from the ground up, and not a rehashed version of the C1, which, and let's be honest here, the C3 is, same goes for the C2.
And yes, the C5 is quicker than the C4. It's got a wonderful, powerful, modern LS-engine, and it's 13 years younger, so of course it handles better, that's just the developement of a car plattform over time. Yet it's no reason to laugh about a car which sold very, very well over its 13-year-run, shaping the Corvette into what we percieve of a modern Corvette (ok, scrap that, now that the MR C8 is out).
And there's one last thing: There was a german YouTuber living close to me, same age as me, who had a black C4 convertible with greenwood bodykit and BBS RS's, which was... questionably modded and he tried to save it. It was an automatic of course, and he recently said that it doesn't really drive very well. While that might be true in a wobbly convertible with an automatic gearbox, and it might also be true that the specs of different C4's do wonder for the C4 - e.g. C4's are known to have weak brakes, while my big brake kit is more than good enough for the car and was used in stock(!) form in the Corvette challenge race cars - I genuinly think this is just the completely wrong attire approach towards the C4.
First, never compare an old car like this to a modern one. Yes, a C4 does not drive as well as a modern sports car. Of course it does not and never will. No need for explanation other than what I've already said in terms of "time" and "development".
But secondly, I'm going a step further in this, and will drop a harsh thesis out of the window: The C4 might be one of the best handling cars of the 80s.
How come, you may say? Well, while the internet and that one YouTuber seems to think the C4 doesn't drive well, I've recently thought about which were the best (sports) cars of the 80s, and sure, while there are many contenders from Europe like a good 190E Cosseh, a few BMWs, of course all Porsche offerings or even a Cosseh Sierra, some american cars like a well-setup Foxbody, or japanese cars like the RX-7, I don't think there are actually *that* many good cars which are better in terms of handling and driver involvement than this Corvette platform is. I think the C4 could easily be placed within the top 10 of "best handling cars of the 80s". It's actually quite sad to see that most people will never be able to enjoy this, as there are so many automatic C4's out there. The only thing this car is really missing is the transaxle gearbox, which the C5 finally got.
Also, while I've never driven them, I think by this time it's pretty clear that poster cars like a Countach or a Testarossa (512TR drives much different, apparently!) might be super cool and rad cars, but don't actually drive that well. I know, heresy, right? Might it be possible that an 80s GM product is actually better than some of the finest composite materials out of the hands of italy's best craftsmen? And laugh about those leaf springs all you want, they're just so damn cheap yet effetive.
Anyway, if you still think that the Corvette C4 is a bad car - consider this: In US-american SCCA sanctioned racing, the Corvettes entered first in 1985. It took them three years for them to be outright banned in the almost-stock racing category of the SCCA - the 944 Turbos and RX-7 Turbos were great cars and even greater competitors to the C4, but in race trim not quite a match to the simple, yet effective and sophisticated-enough Corvette. Out of that resulted the Corvette Challenge for 1988 and following years, basically one of the first one-make-series ever, helped by a car dealership who brought this to life.
If a almost stock Corvette C4 (they ran my exact brake setup in stock form!) can outrun powerful 944's and RX-7's on a regular basis on some tight, rural US-american racetracks and bumpy city circuits, I think it can claim the title of being a well-handling car.
I really advise you to read this article by hagerty:
When the C4 Corvette was banned for being too good, it had to create its own series
Oh, and - I'd love to get parts of a 1989 Corvette C4 Challenge car for mine. Hnnnng. Probably unobtainium, at least in parts and not a full car. Some cars were recently for sale. Just the seats and the emblems on the bonnet and fuel flap would be enough for me. And yes. they did use the stock steering wheel and digital dashboard for racing!
After over a year of ownership and having not driven enough cars in my life I feel entitled enough to claim this very, very bold statement.
Now get on me, internetz. Anyway, now it's me off to look for pictures since my last proper update post for this car here, think about future upgrades and well-needed maintenance, and post it here soon (tm).Have some recent impressions:
featuring @NLZW735 in a rad bike suit
Neues aus Büttenwarder!
lip
Well-Known Member
Now that's some update.
I'm one of the five btw. ?
How do you actually use it? Daily driver, weekend fun, or once a month cruise?
I'm one of the five btw. ?
How do you actually use it? Daily driver, weekend fun, or once a month cruise?
Now that's some update.
I'm one of the five btw. ?
How do you actually use it? Daily driver, weekend fun, or once a month cruise?
Hah, good question.
If you count this being my only car, then I guess it is a daily. But I don't really need a daily-able car as such, I use my bicycle and my two feet for that. But yes, I have used the Vette to go grab stuff at the local shops, hardware store etc.
Because why not. The car is very much useable every day, just like more modern Corvettes. Wouldn't wanna do this in one that's a gen older than mine. But I can also use the Corsa C of my gf if I need to, so there's that.
WDWBen
Subaru Killer
I thought it was a lovely post. I do have a question: how do Europeans react to it when they see it on the road, in the carpark, when you're filling up at a filling station? Is it like we all image owning a supercar is with lots of stopping for photos, answering questions, people saying "I had a poster of that on my wall when I was growing up?"
samulis
Active Member
Great post. I think that Porsche has the hardest contenders in street cars, specially 944 Turbo and 928 form. Their strong point is in quality, in feel, build and driving, they usually deliver the speed in away that it doesn't make a number of it self.
Yearn to drive yours (kinda want to own one too) grows great everytime I read this topic.
Yearn to drive yours (kinda want to own one too) grows great everytime I read this topic.
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Oh, in terms of build quality, I am sure Porsche's are miles away from the Corvette.
This is 80s GM plastics we're talking about... it's better than the internet says, but still creeks and rattles. The indicator stalk feels like it's about to break off when you use it, but @thomas told me it feels the same in his 93 (?) Cadillac Fleetwood.Interesting question. There are certainly people in my city who tend to look down on it and put me on the same level as people who drive big, fuel sipping SUVs instead of small, economic cars (80s US cars made out of plastic just mostly aren't really loved in this country, older US cars made out of metal get better recognition), but there are also a ton of people who actually like it. I especially like it when I can make kids smile with this. In fact, I had some kids (I reckon 12 year olds) on their bikes next to me who shouted to me "rev it, soundcheck!", and that's what I love about it.
With older people, there's often something along the lines of "very cool!", quickly followed by a typical german phrase of "...how much fuel does it use?", which seems to be the only thing Germans are really interested in. There's always someone asking me about fuel economy, insurance prices and taxing. Sigh. Germans will be Germans.
At least most are more than surprised to hear that the car is super cheap to run.
WDWBen
Subaru Killer
Thanks for the response it seems like things are more positive than negative, so overall, that’s a net win. And at the end of the day, if it puts a smile on your face when you dip the clutch and turn the key, it shouldn’t matter what everybody else thinks. I’m really enjoying following along this car’s journey.
it seems like things are more positive than negative, so overall, that’s a net win. And at the end of the day, if it puts a smile on your face when you dip the clutch and turn the key, it shouldn’t matter what everybody else thinks. I’m really enjoying following along this car’s journey.
Oh, in terms of build quality, I am sure Porsche's are miles away from the Corvette.
Oh, a certain Mercury's turn signal stalk feels exactly the same.
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Oh yeah, caddy turn signal stalk feels like it's about to fall off. Apparently default GM of that Era.
gt1750
Techno Addict
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Uhmm, Corvettes have had plastic bodies since the very first C1
Also the only significantly more expensive C3 'Vettes are the early full-chrome-bumper models and convertibles (pre '73 MY, especially manuals and Big Blocks), the emissions-strangled mailaise-era models and the cooler looking, but still weak '80 - '82 cars are priced comparably to decent C4's, at least in Europe.
Uhmm, Corvettes have had plastic bodies since the very first C1
Also the only significantly more expensive C3 'Vettes are the early full-chrome-bumper models and convertibles (pre '73 MY, especially manuals and Big Blocks), the emissions-strangled mailaise-era models and the cooler looking, but still weak '80 - '82 cars are priced comparably to decent C4's, at least in Europe.
I know; I'm referring to anything made in the 80s out of plastic is worth less for "real" 'murican car enthusiasts, because cars made up until that point are made out of proper metal (that will just kill you instantly in a crash). Same goes for european cars. from the period - a Taunus will always be cooler than a Sierra for for those kinda boomer-enthusiasts.