NBC/CBS reject "Kill the Ground Zero Mosque" ad

2Billion

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Palin, you might be pretty but you sure are dumb. While she's right that burning the Quran is a provocation, building a community centre in New York isn't. The key difference is the book burning is driven by hatred, while the Park51 project is driven by a desire for a community space for people to get together.

That's sort of the opposite motivation.
 

Firecat

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Trump made an offer to buyout one of the investors for 25% more than what he paid for the property, on the condition that they move the project at least 5 blocks further from the WTC site. No deal was reached because it was seen as the publicity stunt it was.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100910/ap_on_bi_ge/us_nyc_mosque_trump

I think we are at a point now where a new site should probably be found, because I don't think the ill will this has created is worth it. It would make funding the project easier as well. Maybe find a better location...one where you can create even more facilities for the community.
 

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I think we are at a point now where a new site should probably be found, because I don't think the ill will this has created is worth it. It would make funding the project easier as well. Maybe find a better location...one where you can create even more facilities for the community.
Absolutely not. If you give these cretins who protest this an inch, they will take a mile.

How much "ill will" is too much? Should the Murfreesboro mosque move, too? That's creating ill will, after all.
 

Firecat

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Absolutely not. If you give these cretins who protest this an inch, they will take a mile.

How much "ill will" is too much? Should the Murfreesboro mosque move, too? That's creating ill will, after all.
I think the motivations behind the protests aren't 100% the same. There are some people that have genuine concerns about having this close to ground zero. I don't share the concerns, but it doesn't mean that they aren't valid. The opponents to other mosques around the country have no basis other than bigotry.

There is nothing special about the land. It isn't holy. So if a better place is available, why not move? If this is going to be an interfaith center and for the entire community (not just muslims), then maybe one should give more thought about what the people want (or don't want). I don't see the reason to insist it be built there. It's really not that big of a deal.

My initial thought was always one of indifference. After the protests started I leaned more towards agreeing that it should be built there. Now I'm back to indifference, thinking that it's in the best interest of that particular Islamic community to move because it would be easier for them to fund (and would be up sooner) if it were in another location and it would be less of a security risk for them as well.
 

Plissken

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But then you prove that the mob can win. That stupidity, bigotry and ignorance can win an argument by spreading lies and deceit and simply shouting and screaming loud enough.

To cave in now would be to let the stupids win.
 

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But then you prove that the mob can win. That stupidity, bigotry and ignorance can win an argument by spreading lies and deceit and simply shouting and screaming loud enough.

To cave in now would be to let the stupids win.
Yes.

It would have been easier and safer for Blacks to keep going to separate schools and separate lunch counters during the 1950s, but that doesn't make it right. I find the idea that one particular religious, racial, or ethnic group is not allowed in an area of a city to be so profoundly offensive and un-American that I just can't stand by silent and let it happen, no matter how convenient it is to do so.
 

Dogbert

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It would have been easier and safer for Blacks to keep going to separate schools and separate lunch counters during the 1950s, but that doesn't make it right.
The Montgomery Bus Boycott (of Rosa Parks fame) lasted just over a year. Imagine what would have happened if, after two months, they decided that the "ill will created" wasn't worth it?
 

Firecat

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I think this issue is quite different. Up until this point were muslims really having any issues building mosques? Is the government restricting the rights of muslims?

As a result of 9/11, Islam has taken a huge hit and muslims need to do what they can to repair the damage. It was a major setback to say the least.
 
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British_Rover

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:hmm: reminds me of a certain discussion we once had where everyone jumped on my case because I said I was sick and tired of people equating all republicans/conservatives...
Say huh gonna have to explain that. The de facto Republican leadership(Palin, Newt, Beck, Limbaugh etc.) is leading the charge on this issue. Sure there are a couple of prominent Democrats that have become bigger pussies then normal and/or forgotten the Constitution, I am looking at you Howard Dean and Harry Reid. Plusthere are a couple of Republicans who are on the proper side of the argument, Chris Christie and Todd Olson, but in general it is pretty clear that the Republican leadership and threfore Republicans think they can use this as a wedge issue.



I disagree. I think that moving the site would be tantamount to saying that we'd rather have mob rule than uphold the Constitution. That Muslims are second class citizens. Like Firecat said, it wouldn't be taken as an "act of kindness and understanding", not by people like Gingrich and Palin anyway.


Huh? He's just saying that GOP is using the "Ground Zero mosque" as a wedge issue this fall. It's a lot easier than telling people that you want to go back to the same policies that ran our economy into the ground and ballooned our deficit spending.

Yup I agree completly.

I think this issue is quite different. Up until this point were muslims really having any issues building mosques? Is the government restricting the rights of muslims?

As a result of 9/11, Islam has taken a huge hit and muslims need to do what they can to repair the damage. It was a major setback to say the least.
The Federal gov't probably hasn't but local gov'ts I think are. There have been a couple stories about mosques being denied building permits for pretty weak reasons. I think you posted one yourself.


Oh and now for your daily face palm.


New York Post, Fox News promote macabre 9/11 human remains map

Thanks, News Corp, for not allowing good taste to stand in the way of your obsessive crusade against the construction of an Islamic community center in lower Manhattan near the site of the World Trade Center. Today's Post features a beautiful two-page spread arguing that Ground Zero includes basically everything south of Canal and east of Broadway. They illustrate the argument with a grotesque map of the locations of every place in the area where firefighters found human remains following the attack of 9/11
Spoiler Text: (Click here to toggle display)


 

jmsprovan

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spot the parallels,

charlie brooker always gets it right.
 
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Firecat

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If the Imam will decide of his own volition to move it (for whatever reason). Then what? Does that mean the bigots won?
If he decides to move the place, then I'll respect his decision. But I'll still be disgusted with the conduct and rhetoric of so many of my fellow citizens and politicians. Don't think I'll ever be able to say they "won" though. That would just make me too depressed, I think.


Darned catchy, that.
:lol: Indeed. The few times I've seen Brooker's commentary he's been dead on.
 

Firecat

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I think I need to clarify my position a little more, because I know it seems like I've been all over the map on this issue. If the people behind this project want to keep the location, then I support it. The only reason I would suggest otherwise (and think they should be open-minded about it) is that it would be in their own best interest (funding, security, image) and that's conditional upon them finding a location which would suit their needs similarly or better. The decision is theirs, and theirs alone.
 
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Dogbert

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It may be selfish to think, but agreeing to move would validate all of the bigots and everything they've said so far. The grieving families in Lower Manhattan have now themselves been drowned out by people using this issue to their own hateful ends, and it's their own ends that Rauf is forced to consider now.

It wouldn't matter if he said "tomorrow, out of respect for the people in Lower Manhattan who have come and requested I move, I will move". The Sarah Palin's and the Newt Gingrich's of the world will see that as a victory, and furthermore, everyone else in the world will see it as their victory. It will be absolutely disastrous to Muslim morale around the country, and US opinion throughout the Muslim world, to "let them win", if you will.
 

Firecat

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I agree. The reactions have made it harder for them to change their position now.
 

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I think Imam Rauf lost the ability to graciously accept the request to move when, I dunno, Newt Gingrich compared him to a Nazi setting up shop across the street from the Holocaust Memorial. At this point, moving would be nothing short of capitulation to anti-Muslim radicalism.
 

Firecat

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A little late to the party. Why can't thinking people run for office?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QvKOdiyFaw&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

She is from North Carolina and is running for a seat in the house. As for her opponent (the guy she called out in the ad)...

A spokesman for Etheridge says the congressman has never supported building the mosque near Ground Zero.
 
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