New CA law: Mandatory tire pressure checks at automotive businesses.

[Lupin_IV]

Good point of clarification, Lupin.

I thought the justification for the Oregon law was not about distrusting drivers to pump, but about creating jobs.

It was, as was the NJ version, but the laws were written stating only 'service' must be performed by attendants, so stations usually only have enough staff on hand to pump gas.

I just threw in a local joke about Jerseyites not being trusted with fuel.

 

[Shawn]

When CARB says "service providers" or "service stations", as shown upthread, they really mean "gas stations".

The other thing is, no, most gas stations in the US are self service and do not perform courtesy service checks.

Come on man, that press release says "oil service providers" meaning when you go for an oil and filter changes.

Just because gas stations might provide oil maintenance services as well doesn't mean anyone who fills up there will have their tires checked. Well, that's how I read that press release and like I said we should probably give CARB the benefit of the doubt this one time.

 

[Dogbert]

we should probably give CARB the benefit of the doubt this one time.

But that feels so wrong...

 

[thedguy]

I'm sure this conversation will piss thedguy off. I'm also sure I really don't care.

They already do that in California as well as most of the rest of North America - there is a little air compressor station off to one side of most fuel stations where you can check and adjust your own air pressure. It is usually free to use if you purchase fuel there, if not just free outright.

I missed this post earlier. The difference between here and everywhere else is that California by law REQUIRES it. I believe I even noted that I'm surprised neither of you bitched that the cost of requiring an air compressor for fuel purchasers wasn't some how going to bring down society. A friend of mine noticed that when he goes out of state he has to hunt for stations with working units, it's not a problem in california and you get the air for free.

Come on man, that press release says "oil service providers" meaning when you go for an oil and filter changes.

Just because gas stations might provide oil maintenance services as well doesn't mean anyone who fills up there will have their tires checked. Well, that's how I read that press release and like I said we should probably give CARB the benefit of the doubt this one time.

One thing that is going unnoted is that while many fuel stations also have garages/workshops attached (and many more don't). They are usually operated individually.

So while the garage employee's may be required to do the checks, this is highly unlikely to be the "end of 24 hour service stations" especially since 95% of 'em all just leave the lights on and get rid of the credit/debit charge on fuel after hours.

 

[Spectre]

I missed this post earlier. The difference between here and everywhere else is that California by law REQUIRES it. I believe I even noted that I'm surprised neither of you bitched that the cost of requiring an air compressor for fuel purchasers wasn't some how going to bring down society. A friend of mine noticed that when he goes out of state he has to hunt for stations with working units, it's not a problem in california and you get the air for free.

I don't know where "out of state" he's going, but most places in the US I've travelled, I don't have to hunt for one that's working.

Also, in most states, market pressure (aka competition) drives gas stations to offer the compressor station to their customers. High taxes, on the other hand, apparently drove stations in CA to not offer them in order to reduce costs, and CA (apparently) went and mandated them after they started disappearing in the 90s (right before I left).

The thing is.... when companies do something beneficial because of competition or of their own free will, that's fine. When the government forces them to do it, that's not fine.

 

[thedguy]

^^^^ Alabama. I also noticed the problem when I lived in Missouri and when I was traveling through Colorado recently.

 

[Spectre]

^^^^ Alabama. I also noticed the problem when I lived in Missouri and when I was traveling through Colorado recently.

Okay, that's because there's NOTHING of note in Alabama.

In the last five years I haven't had a problem finding a working compressor station in:

Indiana
Kansas
Illinois
Tennessee
Arkansas
Oklahoma
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Mexico
Kentucky
Arizona
Nevada
Florida

And, of course, Texas.

 

[NooDle]

I don't think he meant that the *engine* was spewing fire, but the car. As in, the car is on fire as it goes down the road... which I think is still legal in CA in terms of the auto safety laws, but may be illegal from an air pollution standpoint.

you gotta love Health & Safety

"Sir, could you put out the fire in your car? You're polluting the environment. The fact that you're on fire yourself is irrellevant, but we have to work together if we want to SAVE THE PLANET1111!!!!!"

 

[thedguy]

you gotta love Health & Safety

"Sir, could you put out the fire in your car? You're polluting the environment. The fact that you're on fire yourself is irrellevant, but we have to work together if we want to SAVE THE PLANET1111!!!!!"

Not gonna see that here. More likely the cops won't be bothered to show up (too busy getting shot at) and the fire trucks are stuck in traffic.

 

[prizrak]

Okay, that's because there's NOTHING of note in Alabama.

In the last five years I haven't had a problem finding a working compressor station in:

Indiana
Kansas
Illinois
Tennessee
Arkansas
Oklahoma
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Mexico
Kentucky
Arizona
Nevada
Florida

And, of course, Texas.

Why is it so hard to have a small compressor in the car I will never understand.....

 

[Blind_Io]

So, question. If saving the environment (not just the air) is so important, why are they focusing on tire pressure instead of safety inspections. Every Mexican pile-o-shit pickup rolling around spewing car parts, oil, coolant and transmission fluid onto the roads is causing more damage to the environment than a few cars with 1psi low pressure.

 

[thedguy]

So, question. If saving the environment (not just the air) is so important, why are they focusing on tire pressure instead of safety inspections. Every Mexican pile-o-shit pickup rolling around spewing car parts, oil, coolant and transmission fluid onto the roads is causing more damage to the environment than a few cars with 1psi low pressure.

I'd wager any attempt to implement a safety inspection system has been fought with an argument along the lines of "it's just another way to keep the poor stuck in their situation."

Though in all honesty, I've seen a HUGE drop in complete piles of trash for vehicles running around in the past 8 months I've been back.

BTW, I find it funny that you decided to attack Cali for this, but didn't go after something far more irritating. The new Catalytic converter law.

It is illegal in California to select a catalytic converter for installation based solely on vehicle weight, engine size, physical shape, size, configuration or pipe diameter.

The body should be clearly labeled with the following:
# A.R.B.- EO Number: (example: D-193-88)
# Part Number: (example: 34015)
# Date Code: (example: 0109)
# Directional Flow Arrow
# 1/2" Tall Numbers
# Must Be Visible From 5ft. Away

Universal cats are now illegal. If you don't get one directly from the manufacturer then it must be stamped with the correct number to match the vehicle.

So now there is no calling up a muffler shop and going "I need a cat for X car" they'll have to order it unless it's a popular item.

Spectre, there is your ammo, have at it.

 

[Blind_Io]

I wasn't aware of that law.

What the fuck is the justification for that? If aftermarket Cats are DOT approved then they are shown to clean the exhaust just as well as a stock Cats. Well, well enough to meet CA emissions standards. You could actually remove the Cat from my car and it would still pass.

 

[thedguy]

I'm still trying to figure it out. What was wrong with basing it on engine size and pipe diameter? Only thing I could think of was 1) make it more expensive/harder to get oddball older "dirty" cars off the road and/or B) make just that little bit harder to get a performance upgrade by going higher flow cat

 

[Spectre]

I'm still trying to figure it out. What was wrong with basing it on engine size and pipe diameter? Only thing I could think of was 1) make it more expensive/harder to get oddball older "dirty" cars off the road and/or B) make just that little bit harder to get a performance upgrade by going higher flow cat

You're forgetting that the objective of CARB (as well as much of the rest of the CA government) is the elimination of the private automobile. By making it *very* difficult to get affordable replacement catalytic converters, they will eliminate more cars.

Also, that's not just oddball cars this will hurt - many more common models don't have dealer-available cats any more.

 

[thedguy]

There is an exemption list, but considering it's an "approved list" for universals, it's likely a pain to get a car put on it though.

The only good thing about this is that I have yet to have a car jacked up to have the cat checked. I'm sure one could buy a universal themselves and get some flanges welded up and put on themselves.

 

[Spectre]

It'd still be illegal, though... which is stupid.

 

[prizrak]

That's awesome... So if I have an GNX with the stock cat and I decide that I could both reduce the emissions and get better flow with a MODERN high flow cat I cannot put it on... I mean wow seriously....

 

[thedguy]

That's awesome... So if I have an GNX with the stock cat and I decide that I could both reduce the emissions and get better flow with a MODERN high flow cat I cannot put it on... I mean wow seriously....

No, no no. You can't put a weld in UNIVERSAL one on, unless there are no other ways to obtain a cat specifically for the car. Magnaflow and a few others I believe do make high flow cats that work on all the GN(x)'s.

Magnaflow actually has a massive inventory of catalytic converters. Most of them are identical except they get a different number stamped on the casing.

The cars that will have trouble mostly are the ones without an enthusiast market that pumps shitload of money into Honeywell's turbo division, like yugo's or 80's jags.

 

[Spectre]

No, no no. You can't put a weld in UNIVERSAL one on, unless there are no other ways to obtain a cat specifically for the car. Magnaflow and a few others I believe do make high flow cats that work on all the GN(x)'s.

Magnaflow actually has a massive inventory of catalytic converters. Most of them are identical except they get a different number stamped on the casing.

The cars that will have trouble mostly are the ones without an enthusiast market that pumps shitload of money into Honeywell's turbo division, like yugo's or 80's jags.

Nice dig in my direction, but strangely enough catalytic converters for Series III XJs and XJS' are in pretty common supply. It may help that Jaguar used the same cats for 20-some years, and that certain models had to have them replaced regularly. Magnaflow and other makers have plenty of them for us. (This is related to why we have a parts supply at all - Jaguar made 186,000 or so Series IIIs, of which 120,000 are identical from a mechanical standpoint. )

No, I'm afraid that the guys that are going to get screwed are those with something like the 90s Mercury Capri, the Geo Storm/Isuzu Impulse, Ferrari 512BBs, things like that.