New Ford GT named "Ford Phoenix" V6 Ecoboost

JimCorrigan

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New Ford GT named "Ford Phoenix" V6 Ecoboost

New Ford GT named "Ford Phoenix" V6 Ecoboost

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Making a V6 less efficient than V8s, V10s....even less efficient than your own 12 year old Supercharged V8.....well done Ford, well done. Clearly such fine engineering will continue inside the engine, wonder how long these "Turbo V6s" last under load. Better buy one of these limited edition sheds and park it in a garage for 10 years to sell to the next collector who doesn't dare to drive it :p But at least they named it ECOBOOST :lol:
You have a point when it comes to the failure of the new car to outperform in fuel economy compared to the old one, or its super car contemporaries. It's rare that it shows up on fuel economy test cycles (as opposed to the real world), but there you have it.

However, your comment regarding this being a fault of the Americans who designed it is way off base.

Would you like us to recite over and over the needless complexity of German vehicles and their horrible reliability over here in North America?

Shall I quote you the real world fuel economy benefits of the Chevrolet Corvette, an American sports car with its "antiquated" pushrods, especially considering it simultaneously outperforms (in all other metrics) European sports cars costing far more?

Would you be interested in the failure of the official fuel economy results of the 718 Boxster and Cayman with their downsized, turbocharged engines to be improved compared to their naturally aspirated, flat six predecessors?

EDIT: let me clarify my above statement in lieu of the peanut gallery trying to make this into a fight. You are 100% correct it is the fault of the specific engineers (American or otherwise) for this fuel economy gaffe. My post was in taking umbrage with the assertion via the meme that somehow this sort of event is exclusive to, and even expected of, American designed cars.
 
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rickhamilton620

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* assembles popcorn stand* ?get ya popcorn here!?
 

Redliner

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If they just put an LS in it...
I bet it would weigh 300lbs less, make 300hp/300lbft more and get 15mpg more!
 

JimCorrigan

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If they just put an LS in it...
I bet it would weigh 300lbs less, make 300hp/300lbft more and get 15mpg more!
That is not at all what I am trying to say and you know it. :p
 

argatoga

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I suspect the V6 was a late decision for the car. I doubt Ford designed their flat plane V8 solely for the Boss Mustang, and instead intended it for the GT. The marketing department probably wasn't keen on promoting Ford's downsized engine range with a V8 engined halo car defining the brand. Now they can connect the Fusion's V6 with the one in the GT. The ultimate point of the Phoenix is to sell Fusions and Escapes, so I don't have much room to argue. Being a late decision would explain the deficiency deficit with the older V8.
 
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D-Fence

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Would you like us to recite over and over the needless complexity of German vehicles and their horrible reliability over here in North America?

Ah, where do I get started? Poor fuel quality compared to Europe? No bi-annual forced govermental car inspections regarding road worthiness allowing for people to ignore maintenance? Then again, I'd like to do an equal comparison with the reliability of American cars in Germany, but sadly you don't export anything in numbers high enough for people to take note.


giphy.gif
 

prizrak

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Ah, where do I get started? Poor fuel quality compared to Europe? No bi-annual forced govermental car inspections regarding road worthiness allowing for people to ignore maintenance? Then again, I'd like to do an equal comparison with the reliability of American cars in Germany, but sadly you don't export anything in numbers high enough for people to take note.


giphy.gif
O'RLY - http://www.autoblog.com/2016/04/08/ford-mustang-germany-audi-porsche-sales-news/

Also explain to me how Japanese cars are reliable all over the world and Ze Germans only in Europe? Go ahead I'll wait...
 

Spectre

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I was wondering why his sudden vitriol about US cars in this and the Ford plant thread, but now I just figure he's butthurt because he saw what happened to BMW's sales numbers in the US last year.



Even in a down market for cars... ouch. Worst YTY/YOY percentage sales loss of any US market group, by quite a margin. Wonder if all those Jaguar sales improvements were at BMW's expense.
 
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D-Fence

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I was wondering why his sudden vitriol about US cars in this and the Ford plant thread, but now I just figure he's butthurt because he saw what happened to BMW's sales numbers in the US last year.



Even in a down market for cars... ouch. Worst YTY/YOY percentage sales loss of any US market group, by quite a margin. Wonder if all those Jaguar sales improvements were at BMW's expense.

I couldn't care less about sales figures - unlike you, I am not a rampaging fanboy one way or the other, I just love how attacked you feel once I criticize anything your beloved UAW guys produce :D

And regarding BMW: they are posting record profits each quarter, and all that without being bailed out by the government. So even with less sales, posting record profits, I guess they are doing everything right :)
 

GRtak

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Everything right? Isn't this the company that recommends a battery change every oil change on some models?
 

Cellos88GT

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I suspect the V6 was a late decision for the car. I doubt Ford designed their flat plane V8 solely for the Boss Mustang, and instead intended it for the GT.

I don't think so. Turbo motors have a greater advantage over NA motors in racing series where there are restriction on fuel flow simply because of how much easier it is to tune for a desired torque curve. Modifying a torque curve in an NA motor is far more difficult in light of fuel flow limits and largely depends on the physical design of the motor leading to a more costly engine development program.

And regarding BMW: they are posting record profits each quarter, and all that without being bailed out by the government. So even with less sales, posting record profits, I guess they are doing everything right :)

Ford has never received a bail out.
 

JCE

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You know, D-Fence & Spectre. I feel like I need to be the voice of reason here...shocking since I'm probably more opinionated and irrational than you two combined. ;) Can you all agree to disagree and move on? :D Let us just discuss how awesome this looks and how crappy the drive train choice is and leave it at that. LOL

On the subject of the original topic, let me just say these things. I like the exterior, a lot. But I'm not a fan of the interior as much as the previous one and I hate the idea of this not having at least a V8. But, Ford had their reasons on why they wanted to do a twin turbo V6 instead of a V8 platform--mistake or not they made the choice and they will live with it and apparently no one who buys one gives a shit. I for one think this is quite stupid and I don't care what anyone says, no supercar should ever be allowed to have an engine smaller than 8 cylinders with or with forced induction and or electricity added. V6's belong in saloons, cheap coupes, SUVs, and minivans regardless of power adders. This does NOT however mean these Ford or "American" engineers are stupid or otherwise deficient in any way what-so-ever. We don't know the development decisions and or overall project reasoning for these decisions because we weren't there working on that project. (As usual there is always at least 1 exception to every rule and that exception this time goes to the 911's flat-six because it is a brilliant fucking motor that sounds the business)

As for the derogatory meme regarding "American Engineering"... I may not like General Motors, and I really do not, I will applaud their engineers and development of the Corvette in each generation since the C5. This latest generation is perhaps the best one since the C2. How they are able to get such intense power AND fuel economy from a pushrod V8 engine is astonishing. And that's not even mentioning the awesome suspension setup. So to lump an entire nation's engineers in to one category is dumb, there are engineers in every country, including Germany, who lack sense. :)

Ford has never received a bail out.

That's why I'm still a fan. They didn't take my money and waste it like GM did.
 
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JimCorrigan

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Ah, where do I get started? Poor fuel quality compared to Europe? No bi-annual forced govermental car inspections regarding road worthiness allowing for people to ignore maintenance?
1) Fuel quality is not actually worse in North America than Europe, the ratings systems are different.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/09/octane-ratings

http://www.etuners.gr/fuel/

But, for argument's sake, what if the fuel was worse on this side of the Atlantic? Isn't then blaming "poor fuel" as a some sort of justification against my earlier claims an indictment of the failure of the manufacturer to tailor their products to the needs of their second largest market?

2) Do you have any proof at all that North Americans actually ignore the service requirements of their vehicles, or is that just more baseless accusation? And if they are ignoring the maintenance, why do the reliability problems typically only affect German cars, versus say American or Japanese ones? Or are you suggesting that Americans who buy/finance/lease typically expensive German cars are selectively ignoring the maintenance versus people who buy other vehicles?

Then again, I'd like to do an equal comparison with the reliability of American cars in Germany, but sadly you don't export anything in numbers high enough for people to take note.

giphy.gif
I'm not American or living in the US, so direct those comments elsewhere. I don't care which brands have success where. You do realize I proudly own a particular VAG product as well?

Oh, and pick the mic back up. Like Obama, you haven't accomplished anything here to deserve it. You still have also failed to answer my comments about how Porsche's latest mid engined cars are analogous to the Ford GT, I.e. Downsized engines and yet worse fuel economy. You also haven't addressed the old tech warhorse Corvette beating anything price comparable to European cars on both performance AND fuel economy.
 

Jimi Hendrix

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Aren't we slightly missing the point here...discussing fuel consumption figures on a supercar thread?
 

NecroJoe

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Aren't we slightly missing the point here...discussing fuel consumption figures on a supercar thread?

Well, in the way that this type of car is meant as a showcase of engineering, it's interesting to see something be "worse" at something than competition or previous generations.
 

Cellos88GT

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Not to derail the thread, but you know it's way more complicated than that, right?

well, if want to look into all of the complications, then every OEM and it's mother has had some form of a "bail out" or gov't loan. One could argue that at the time, Ford's loan had the least amount of risk associated with it.
 
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