Unverified Ownership NooDle’s EV take 2 : The Mullet (Kia EV6)

Perc

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And pretty soon the long-trip range will match and then beat ICE cars...

You really think we'll gett 1200km from an EV "pretty soon"?
 

NooDle

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You’re just shifting the problem. Sure they can make a battery that gets 1500 kms on a charge. But you’ll need to charge it for 3 days when it’s empty (or 3 hrs on a fast charger).

Also people don’t need the range they claim to do….
 

Matt2000

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It's kind of a swings and roundabouts situation. I'd generally like faster charging over more range, but the technology developments to allow us to cram more juice into the batteries will probably produce more energy-dense cells. Maybe they won't. :p

Either way, I can't see home charging getting any faster than it can be now. Frankly it might get more limited as people adopt it and the grid struggles to cope, having a high capacity battery might not be much use in that case.
 

NooDle

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It depends on your driving habits too. Even with a job which has me driving around, I’ll be home for atleast 12-13 hrs. At my (slow 3,7 kw) home charging speed this means around 48 kwh I can recharge every single night. Unless I drove for 250 kms every single day, I’d be fine. Sure I can invest in a 3 phase setup and charge 3x as fast, but why would I ?

I’ll have access to 11 kw chargers at work (giving me a full battery in 6ish hrs) and I litterally drive by 350 kw chargers on the way to work and back.

So no, you don’t need a massive setup at home. And thus, there will be no energy shortage
 
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gaasc

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I for one don't think so. Because it's simply unnecessary.

I disagree, especially when you take into account the larger countries, or operations such as delivery drivers in the US who can do 200,000 miles a year. Someone's unnecessary is someone else's essential.

Now, the more important matter on this one, of course, are charging times. Not everyone wants to sit about for 30 minutes and "have a coffee or stretch [their] legs" while their EV charges. Some people actually do need (mostly just want) fuel stops that are no more time-consuming than existing ones. This is before the queuing situation when you get with such stops. A 3-400 km range is much more acceptable if it takes you 5-10 minutes to refill.

@lip , please also note we have several members that went EV and back to ICE. We're still on the very exciting phase where EV's are evolving in different ways. I'd watch this space over the coming years, see what developments come around. Meanwhile, the barking shall continue :D
 

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This is all very typical arguments/FUD that have been cited for years, yet still EVs work out. It’s only super rare edge cases where the current range wouldn’t suffice. Size of country is entirely irrelevant.
But hey, don’t care ?‍♂️ I disagree, you disagree, whoopdidoo!

Also people don’t need the range they claim to do….
The truth. It’s mostly down to usage and thinking patterns being stuck in ICE.
 

marcos_eirik

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^"Rapdgate" is a therm TeslaBjørn is using in general for all cars that slow down their fast charging speed due to overheating battery, the old Nissan Leaf was infamous for this. Similarly he uses the therm "Coldgate" on cars that fastcharge slowly when the battery is too cold, this can be a problem with cars that uses heat pumps to scavenge heat from the battery to heat up the cabin, thus cooling down the battery.

Still, it has good range, TeslaBjørn managed to do 1000 km in less than 10 hours:
 

NooDle

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I disagree, especially when you take into account the larger countries, or operations such as delivery drivers in the US who can do 200,000 miles a year. Someone's unnecessary is someone else's essential.

Now, the more important matter on this one, of course, are charging times. Not everyone wants to sit about for 30 minutes and "have a coffee or stretch [their] legs" while their EV charges. Some people actually do need (mostly just want) fuel stops that are no more time-consuming than existing ones. This is before the queuing situation when you get with such stops. A 3-400 km range is much more acceptable if it takes you 5-10 minutes to refill.

@lip , please also note we have several members that went EV and back to ICE. We're still on the very exciting phase where EV's are evolving in different ways. I'd watch this space over the coming years, see what developments come around. Meanwhile, the barking shall continue :D
Fine, I'll bite (again).

While some people do 200k a year, the vast majority of people do less than 100 kms a day.
I'd wager even 80+% do less than 50 kms a day.
Couple that to home charging (I know, not possible for everyone, but hear me out), and you can basically recharge your car every day with many hours to spare. The trick is quite simple : just plug it in whenever and wherever possible. ABC = Always Be Charging. It won't matter that your car is full more often than not.

So yes, fast charging is all nice, but it won't be the main way you charge up your car. This is something many people don't understand because they keep thinking 'drive until empty, go to refuelling station/fast charger, fill up, go home'. While this is possible for EVs aswell, it's not what you do. You just take 10 seconds every day to plug in your car and you leave every morning with a full battery. Yes, it may take 10 hours, or 4 or 7, but that doesn't matter since the car is not being used at that time.

For long trips, sure, the added speed is awesome(IIRC the Kia does 0-80% in 16 minutes or so). On the other hand I don't mind a break after driving for 400 kms straight so if it takes a bit longer, it doesn't really matter.
 

Cowboy

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So.....in your perfect little all EV world, what do I do when I want to visit relatives in the South of Spain ? 2.200km? Or if I fancy a quick holiday in the highlands? 1.800km? This EV shit is alright for you squares who don't have a life outside your boring wife and annoying kids, hell, you have been told to comply so you comply anyway, like good little sheeple, don't think, just follow, proper 1984 shit, congratulations........... but howbout us more intrepid people who value their freedom to go anywhere, anytime?
 
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eizbaer

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Dude, get lost with your hostile bullshit, honestly. If you can’t at least try to keep a proper tone, you really shouldn’t come here.

To answer your „question“: you drive 400km, take a pee/coffee break, then drive another 300 and repeat. Easy. Last year I went for a nice little road trip round Denmark. Most relaxed holiday drive if my life…

Also read noodles post. The fact that he wakes up to a full battery every day means he has much more “freedom” to just go wherever he wants…
 

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So.....in your perfect little all EV world, what do I do when I want to visit relatives in the South of Spain ? 2.200km? Or if I fancy a quick holiday in the highlands? 1.800km? This EV shit is alright for you squares who don't have a life outside your boring wife and annoying kids, hell, you have been told to comply so you comply anyway, like good little sheeple, don't think, just follow, proper 1984 shit, congratulations........... but howbout us more intrepid people who value their freedom to go anywhere, anytime?
That's nice and all, but while I get your point, there are ways to make it without being an asshole, ok buddy? So calm your tits and move on from this thread.

And on a sidenote to the discussion: I do also still think that the pracaticality of EVs is still overrated by a lot of people. It is just not the range, it is and will be for a while, the charging. But that is not the point of this thread, so moving on.

Moving on should be what everyone does in here, unless it is specifically about this Seat-DBX e-mobility scooter that has been ordered.
 

gaasc

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Fine, I'll bite (again).

Doesn't ABC increase the degradation of the battery? Robert Llwelyn actually mentioned the opposite of what you are saying right now on the retrospective of his 10 years with a Nissan Leaf. Getting himself to stop charging his car at every available opportunity was something they had trouble with but continuing to do so causes issues for the battery in the long run.

I will readily admit that this is a fringe case, but a relevant one to the origin of the conversation "And pretty soon the long-trip range will match and then beat ICE cars...". They are not, but saying that such a thing is "unnecessary" because most people do not use it seems (to me) needlessly exclusive. At present we have ICE for that. ICE is going away. There is nothing wrong with pointing this gap out, I think.

As ever, I have to write a disclaimer: I still think the future of motoring is indeed EV. My personal feelings towards EV have no bearing in this direction. And people for whom an EV works will indeed buy them. However, denying their existing shortcomings based on their appeal to the masses does not mean the problems do not exist. That the ones I mentioned are indeed typical arguments (I disagree that they are just FUD) does not invalidate them. Especially since governments continue to place prospective end dates on the availability of ICE alternatives for people whose use cases haven't yet been reached by EV development. I continue to look excitedly at battery developments that promise little or no degradation, a reduced use of rare metals, or promise to allow for a drastic reduction in charge times. Let's not argue thinking that the technology will not get better, especially because improvements would be "unnecessary".

EDIT: This post was written before Thomas's message. I shall refrain from going on about this in this thread. I'll just join in congratulations on the new kimchi barge, and finding it inconceivable to wait that much for what is nowadays a standard family vehicle.
 
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jack_christie

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Yeah I heard about this but it’s not like I’ll fastcharge it every day. I have a charger at home AND at work so it won’t be a real problem for me.

Even so, the ‘reduced’ charge speed is still 2-3 times faster than my Golf manages now
I think the critical battery temp was about 45C. Over that you get reduced power.
 

jack_christie

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So.....in your perfect little all EV world, what do I do when I want to visit relatives in the South of Spain ? 2.200km? Or if I fancy a quick holiday in the highlands? 1.800km? This EV shit is alright for you squares who don't have a life outside your boring wife and annoying kids, hell, you have been told to comply so you comply anyway, like good little sheeple, don't think, just follow, proper 1984 shit, congratulations........... but howbout us more intrepid people who value their freedom to go anywhere, anytime?
2022 Nio ET7, 1000km range
 

NooDle

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So.....in your perfect little all EV world, what do I do when I want to visit relatives in the South of Spain ? 2.200km? Or if I fancy a quick holiday in the highlands? 1.800km? This EV shit is alright for you squares who don't have a life outside your boring wife and annoying kids, hell, you have been told to comply so you comply anyway, like good little sheeple, don't think, just follow, proper 1984 shit, congratulations........... but howbout us more intrepid people who value their freedom to go anywhere, anytime?

For longer trips where you can’t be bothered to wait, you can get a plane, train, borrow someone else’s car, whatever. I wouldn’t buy a car for a trip I do maybe once a year.

FYI I want an EV because I like their comfort, performance, smooth ride. Not because I have to. You seem to think I’m forcing everyone to have one, but I don’t really care. Just many people discount them as an option because of those 2 weeks holiday once a year, while for the other 50 weeks a year, an EV is fine
 

NooDle

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Also, ABC means (slow)charge it whenever possible. It’s repeated fast charging that isn’t ideal for battery life.

Again for my use case I’ve had to fastcharge mote than once a day twice in 3,5 years. Got slower speed once because it was 35 degrees and I’ve driven only highwayspeeds. So yeah, edge case really. If you need to do 600 kms everyday and can’t stop for 20 minutes, don’t get an EV. My point is that this almost never happens for anyone
 

NooDle

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There is some actual news!
Called the dealer to check if the nonsense delivery date I was given was still correct.
They told me the car was already made, and was awaiting a boat to get to Europe. Should have it in around 2 months, which is may instead of october.

giphy.gif


Also, I’ll be getting a new, faster 7,4 kw charger installed at home so that I can charge it to full overnight if needed (10 hrs).
Perhaps it’s overkill but nice to have anyway.
 
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