Now this is just crossing the line...

mmap

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justin syder said:
im not rich and i voted republican. :wink:

i just dont agree with democrats, on some things. i dont agree that a passive method is best for handling terrorism. going to the UN will not work. It hasnt worked years after the first gulf war. he violated the UNs restrictions and what was done to him, a slap on the wrist.
I agree with zenon and don't really want to get into this conversation simply because of the level of intelligent showed, but I have to point out this one thing... If braking the UN restrictions is such a horrible thing then why are you guys alway on Israels side? They have been blatently violating every UN restirction placed on them since the 50's and when ever the UN tries to do something on it the US uses its veto right...
 

hanasand

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if you think its symbolic then you would also agree that palenstinians killing them selves are symbolic of their struggle. You are really ridiculous.
Allright, let me be Mr.Ridiculous then. But how the fuck would you feel if someone
came into your country and demanded it, forcing you out of your country. Sure,
the jews were treated extremely bad during the holocaust. But it had NOTHING to
do with the Palestinians. I can very well understand the suicide bombers, it's a
desperate cry-out to be heard. But obvieusly they are not heard. They are stamped as
terrorists in the U.S and many other nations, only gaining more support to the jews.

im not rich and i voted republican.
IgnorATSCHOO!! Damn, I had to sneeze.. :p


lets face it, poor ppl are poor due to their circumstance, their addiction, their lack of using a condom and having a few kids without a good job. i shouldnt have to pay higher taxes for their mistake.
I think I just threw up in my mouth and swallowed it again. It shouldn't be necessary
to point this out any further.


And the thing you have a total misconception of is the way the poor benefit
from the taxes payed from the more wealthy. You refer to it as a handfull of
dollars thrown at them every week from an office labeled "LOOSER". It's basically
having to pay less taxes, when you have less money. I don't think many poor
people would say no to that. And the chance to give your kids a PROPER education.
Which basically destroys your pathetic quote of the poor being dumb and having
fucked up themselves. What if you are born into a poor home and wants to get a
high-school education? It's not going to work, because your system is so fucked
up. It's not survival of the fittest PRIMAL EDITION anymore. We are homo-sapiens
now for fuck sakes. And what about being allowed to get full health care? The
selfishness irritates me, if only there were propaganda strong enough to convince
people of following some basic ethics.

I'm glad I live in a country where we all have equal chances from the day we pop.
 

Daniel

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I couldnt agree more hanasand. Justin don't you get our points? I thought people with opinions like yours didnt excist. Think I was Naiv. And yes I would sacrifice luxury for my "fellow citizens of the world". No matter how cheasy it must sound.. :|
 

Daniel

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If it would help a great amount of people, yes. But it wouldnt, so I wont. See, if everyone gave a little bit, that would really help. But we dont want continents like Africa to get back on its feet. If Africans all the sudden would like and could consume as much as we do, the world would crash. It would overload. We need poor to have rich, thats how the world works. Why not step down and meet? Live in harmony? It's only a random thought, and it will not happen. If every chinaman had a fridge, the nature wouldnt handle it. How is that for a thought? DO we really want justice for all?

I think if we would even it out, things would be better, but my god how far away we are... :(
 

Ultra_Kool_Dude

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I don't think there has to be poor people to have rich. North America could sustain itself without having to make another continent (like Africa) poor. I think the key lies in economic development of the poor countries, and improvement in technology (food growing, energy, etc).

Rich people can give poor people money, but they will remain poor. It's like that saying - "Give a man a fish...".
 

Daniel

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Ultra_Kool_Dude Oh my fucking God. I dont believe that you mean that. You are very stupid, really young or trying to be funny. Why the fuck do you think that Nike makes their shoes in Asia? Why do you make more a day than an ethiopian does in a month?

If you really stand by your opinion, I suggest you put down the Arnold books, and read some newspapers. Oh my god. :(
Im really sad now...
 

justin syder

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Why do you make more a day than an ethiopian does in a month?

If you really stand by your opinion, I suggest you put down the Arnold books, and read some newspapers. Oh my god.
Im really sad now...
because unless you educate that person they will be dependant on ur funds. you give him money but he will still be in his poor situation.

and Daniel, let me know when you have donated ur car. doesnt sound like ur practise what you preach.

sell it and look in ur own country for a family in need of a good help and pay some of their bills or buy them a months supply of food or do something good with the moeny.

i'll be here waiting to see what good deed you have done.
 

justin syder

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hanasad there is unemployment benefits or money for ppl that are unemployed but only for a limited time.

poor ppl arent dumb but are poor because of something they did. you and others mention that if someone doesnt have money for health care or food or etc but you FAIL to mention why that person is in that situation.

WHY do they have to sacrifice rent money for food? what got them poor? All of you "help the poor but not with my own money" advocates still have to address WHY ppl arive at the sitution that they are in.

My family, not everyone but some that I have mentioned will become poor because of mistakes they made. There are other ppl like that all over the US.
 

hanasand

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if someone doesnt have money for health care or food or etc but you FAIL to mention why that person is in that situation.
You are blowing me away with your stupidity on these subjects justin. I'm really
sorry, but I would be lying to myself if I said otherwise. I'VE MENTIONED IT
VERY CLEARLY!

But since you obvieusly can't read, I'll be nice and state my point one more time...

The point is, many many poor have been born into poor families. And when living
in a country like America your chances suddenly fall drastically if you are in this
situation. Who would you hire? A welldressed man with straight A college education
or a poor man with elementary school or whatever you call it. It's so fucking stupid.

Stop invading countries for a while and take care of your people first.

So becoming rich when born into a poor family is close to impossible, definetly
VERY hard. So don't come here and bitch about them being stupid and having
made mistakes.

And stop reffering to people making themselves poor. Offcourse there is also
a group of people responsible for losing their own money. But shouldn't this (intelligence/luck)
be at the same ethic line as beauty? "Oh no, you look so fucking ugly you
don't deserve to live properly".

Some people of normal wealth could suddenly have a sick child, requiring expensive
treatment. Literally making them poor. Did they make a MISTAKE? Are they DUMB?
If you are to selfish to pay your taxes
to make sure the living standars in your country is acceptable for all then go
ahead and live in your little egosentric world, but don't push it onto everyone
else who still has a little compassion in their life
 

justin syder

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else who still has a little compassion in their life
How have you been compasionate recently. Im not going to pretend that I want to help ppl meanwhile do nothing. I think we should help poor ppl but not buy giving them handouts through bigger govt. I dont want higher taxes so it can go to a govt program that wont work, ie welfare.

You go on in a circle. Why are ppl born into a poor family? And there are many success stories of americans, movie stars, musician etc that were dirt poor and have made a success of themselves.

So becoming rich when born into a poor family is close to impossible, definetly
VERY hard. So don't come here and bitch about them being stupid and having
made mistakes.
http://www.ideasandtraining.com/Success-Stories.html

there are some success stories from ppl that have no oppurtunity according to you.

And how has your compassion helped anyone recently? Let us know about the recent donation or how you have recently helped out the poor.

Im also still waiting for Daniel to do good with his car money.


The point is, many many poor have been born into poor families. And when living
in a country like America your chances suddenly fall drastically if you are in this
situation. Who would you hire? A welldressed man with straight A college education
or a poor man with elementary school or whatever you call it. It's so fucking stupid.
This is so ridiculous.

A welldressed man with straight A college education
or a poor man with elementary school or whatever you call it. It's so fucking stupid.
Ppl here are given up to a high school education for free. they have the oppurtunity to have an education and IF they do well can get scholarships and for college and have that for free. That will put them on the same level as someone who is wealthy and went to college and has a suit as yopu mentioned. Employeers higher more so on experiecnce and College education and GPA in some cases has little influence. SOME cases.

Ppl here have a better chance at success than anywhere in the world. Our poorest ppl would be rich in countries like Dominican Republic, Somalia, Mexico etc etc. If there is no chance at social mobility why do ppl come here?
 

SPG900

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People come to the US because of inequality. They see the people on TV who started from nothing and made it big. They never see the many many more who never made it. It makes them dream, and they want to give it a go. It's a simple fact that it's "easier" to become a billionaire in the US, than say, Belgium. In fact it'd be practically impossible here. But it's also a lot easier in the US to end up in the gutter. I tried to discuss this before, but all you could come up with were penguins. Why am I wasting my time again?
 

hanasand

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You are an impossible case. I give up trying to convince you, without the reason
at all being your arguments, they are bottomless.

I'll answer something though

How have you been compasionate recently.
And how has your compassion helped anyone recently? Let us know about the recent donation or how you have recently helped out the poor.
By voting for the party most likely to help them. You are so narrow sighted you think helping the poor is still giving them a handfull of dollars.


You go on in a circle. Why are ppl born into a poor family? And there are many success stories of americans,
You republicans love it when you have a pointless thing you can state over and
over again without any debt. (yes I am reffering to that idiotic flip floping propaganda)
If your family were poor when you were born, HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU BE
HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR IT!??!? Oh my fucking god... This is truly disguisting

Our poorest ppl would be rich in countries like Dominican Republic, Somalia, Mexico etc etc.
Oh WOHOO! What a nice thing. Our poorest are a bit better of then third world
countries poor people. So fuck em! Nice Justin, really nice..


Your problem is that by helping the poor you seem to think you are giving money to
laid back usless people walking around drinking all day long. Those people
equal only a fraction minority of the poor. This is so naive I can't believe it.

Ppl here are given up to a high school education for free. they have the oppurtunity to have an education and IF they do well can get scholarships and for college and have that for free. That will put them on the same level as someone who is wealthy and went to college and has a suit as yopu mentioned. Employeers higher more so on experiecnce and College education and GPA in some cases has little influence. SOME cases.

I would love to see you reborn into a family unable to finance your college education
and hear you talk about this same thing from a different p.o.v.

pl here have a better chance at success than anywhere in the world. Our poorest ppl would be rich in countries like Dominican Republic, Somalia, Mexico etc etc. If there is no chance at social mobility why do ppl come here?
Because if you have something to start with and do good, you can make it really
good. America is a good place for rich people and becoming rich, that's why.

This is so ridiculous.
Sure it is, you know the answer as well as I do, so you use an attacking technique.
Not working well I'm afraid.


This selfishness is so primal...
 

justin syder

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I would love to see you reborn into a family unable to finance your college education
and hear you talk about this same thing from a different p.o.v.

I am taking out a loan for my college education. That means i cant afford it. :wink: Anyone that is poor can take a loan and get a college education. They will be in the same situatin I am in. I have to pay back what i borrowed but i will do so before having kids or getting a nice car because i will use common sense. Some ppl dont.

You are born poor but it has something to do with ur parents thats why you dont get at. No one is born stuck in that situation. We dont have the caste system.

Why would you have a kid if ur poor? Thats why ppl are born poor cause some ppl have children that they cant afford to raise.

By voting for the party most likely to help them. You are so narrow sighted you think helping the poor is still giving them a handfull of dollars.
So you admit to not help poor ppl directly. Just like Daniel, talk the talk but dont walk the walk. You accuse me of being cold hearted or lacking passion but voting does not directly help a family in need of some assitance. :roll:
 

zenon

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Okay, you are really hitting a new low here Justin. Some of the comments you are making are plain disgusting. It's the sort of viewpoint you hear people joking with their friends about, not necessarily fully believing themselves. I am shocked that you are actually trying to defend this. :(

justin syder said:
poor ppl arent dumb but are poor because of something they did.
That comment just oozes with self-righteous North American idealism.

Basically what you are doing is blaming the poor for being poor. I'd imagine with that line of thought you would think that everyone is equal, has equal oppurtunities and should be able to become successful. Anyone who fails obvioulsly doesn't deserve a comfortable living.

That is absolutely not the case. Many of the poor families in North America find themselves in situations where children need to be employed to allow the family to continue living. I hope I don't need to give you statistics on how many kids in that situation go on to post-secondary education, because it is obviously extremely low. Maintaining grades to get into schools takes time and if you have to work to help support your family, you obviously aren't going to have the time to study.

Furthermore, if you look at the statistics of kids that succeed in school, you'll see that nearly all of them are involved in extra-curricular and after school activities. Taking music lessons, art lessons, playing sports etc. all contribute directly to a child's ability to do well at school. For a family that is struggling just to put food on the table, none of this is an option at all.

Even though you see all your Hollywood success stories on TV, the reality is that the vast majority of children growing up in low-income families stay in low-income families. They clearly don't have the same opportunity - arguing anything else is going against just about everything sociologists have found in the last 30-40 years.

I'm not going to pretend like I know a lot about poverty statistics in America, but I know quite a bit about what is going on here in Canada. The highest percentages of people living below the poverty line in Canada are the elderly and single mothers (50% of elderly singles and 60% percent of single female mothers). In the same year those statistics were taken, a sinlge parent on welfare would recieve $13,000 a year, just barely scraping the established poverty line. Again, and elderly person obviously does not have the same opportunity as a young person. They can not simply go out and get a job. I don't know what your view of single mothers, but I'd assume it would go something like "dumb knocked up bitches", but if you have any idea about what daycare costs, or how much time and money it takes to raise a child, you'd know that these people have very little in terms of opportunity.

And if you respond by saying that elderly people deserve to live in poverty because they didn't plan well enough, or that single mothers deserve to live in poverty because they have a child, you are absolutley heartless. Everyone deserves to live a life where they can eat three meals a day. Being poor should mean you can not afford luxury items, not that you struggle just to survive.

Furhtemore, the logic you are using against Daniel is absolutely idiotic. I'm a young student like him and also feel compassion for the poor, but I have an income that barely supports me and my education. It's not economically feasible for me to make donations to charities, but once I am done school and have a job, I will have no problem paying high taxes to support welfare, and would gladly support charities.

I'm going to use the same idiotic logic on you: if you believe in George Bush and the Iraq war, go enlist in the army.
 

mmap

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justin syder said:
Why would you have a kid if ur poor? Thats why ppl are born poor cause some ppl have children that they cant afford to raise.

So you admit to not help poor ppl directly. Just like Daniel, talk the talk but dont walk the walk. You accuse me of being cold hearted or lacking passion but voting does not directly help a family in need of some assitance. :roll:
There are so many things wrong with justin's arguments that I do not know where to begin... will point out a few things though. Why would you have a kid if you are poor?? Well justin my dear, accidents do happen you know, there is also the little thing called catholic church, you heard of it? While I and you perhaps, think that banning contraseptics is stupid, there are several million people even in america who believe what the pope says. Should they be banished to eternal poverty because of religious beliefs? or would you perhaps forbid them from having sex? (yeah I'd like to see you try that).

One of the major flaws in your arguments is also the fact that you are talking on an individual level, when these sort of matters can realistically only be debated on a general/abstract level. Yes there are individuals who have risen from "rags to riches" but in general this is not realisticly possible. Citing random individual cases as proof of your point is just not going to convince anyone.

Finally though, while I agree with Hanasand and others. You are more than welcome to have your own opinions on the matters, I just wish that you would realise that perhaps you are not aware of the whole issue when ranting and insulting others...
 

justin syder

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well of course we are going to have single mothers nowadays, its accepted behavior!

I guess I can have a kid, as a accident of course, and be sure that ppl will help pay for my kid. I guess its the right thing to do, pay for other ppls responsibilities.

obviously this is getting us no where.
 

zenon

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^ You just don't get it. :roll: Did you even read my post?

Social assistance isn't "paying for other peoples responsibilties". There is a huge population of your country that struggle just to get by - I'm not sure what your view of social assistance is, but living off of it is extremely difficult. In Canada, you basically get enough to barely survive - that's it. Social assistance is there for people who can not work because of disabilities or extenuating circumstances - if you think that they live these wonderful comfortable lives with the bill footed by the middle class, you are very very misguided. Some do take advantage of the system, but that is true of every government program. Do you know how many Americans cheat on their taxes each year? Do yourself a favor and look up the statistic.

The reality is, the majority of the poor are poor because of social forces, not because they have made mistakes. If you think they should remain poor because of mistakes, you are absolutely heartless.
 

justin syder

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The reality is, the majority of the poor are poor because of social forces, not because they have made mistakes. If you think they should remain poor because of mistakes, you are absolutely heartless.
i think ppl need to be responsible for themselves and not blame society,plz dont tell me you think that white ppl are holding down the blacks here.
 
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