Obama seeks to cut US oil imports by one-third.

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To give those of you who are not labcoatguy an idea, this is how far I am from Boston while living in a town with no train and one bus that only comes when it feels like it.
At least I get good highway access? :lol:
 
Only 20km from a city of over half a million and no train and only one bus? That's mindblowingly poor!
Yes google says you live on the interstate :p
 
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Single yourneytime to Antwerp by car : 60 minutes, cost in fuel? about 10 bucks, Cost for wear/insurance/parking/everything else ? Meh? 5 Quid?

Yourneytime to Antwerp by public transport? About 175 minutes, cost? 12.50 bucks.

So for the measly price of just 2 hours each way I can save 2.5 euro's! 5 if I lose 4 hours by coming back the same day!

Public transportation! hell yeah! :p
 
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I was in Boston Friday night, and the T does a fine job of getting you around the area, but we drove to the first T station. There's a train from Worcester (right next to my town) but it's hardly worth it, since your schedule is now dependent on train times. In Boston, you just got to a station and wait for a train, one will show up in a minute or two.

It still wasn't very comfortable, but it was fine for short trips within the city.
 
I was in Boston Friday night, and the T does a fine job of getting you around the area, but we drove to the first T station. There's a train from Worcester (right next to my town) but it's hardly worth it, since your schedule is now dependent on train times. In Boston, you just got to a station and wait for a train, one will show up in a minute or two.

It still wasn't very comfortable, but it was fine for short trips within the city.

Bingo. Here, the subway comes every ten minutes during off-peak times and the buses every 20-40, and these are halved during rush hour. This doesn't give you much margin for error, though to be fair traffic and parking can do the same for car journeys. AiR, is this transit frequency comparable to what you see in Europe?
 
Yeah, dense cities like Boston and NYC are exceptions rather than the rule in the US. Outside Boston proper, though, having a car is a great help, and since the "metro Boston" area includes a lot of spread-out towns, this includes most people in said metro area. I live in Cambridge, which is regularly served by the T, and even then I generally walk within the town and drive anywhere that has parking, which is to say most places that aren't downtown. My workplace is a five minute walk from a subway station (well, above ground, but the same line), and every single person in my office drives to work, even the ones that live near public transit (like me). The flexibility is more than worth it, and that's what drivers around here pay for.

Doesn't the T shutdown at midnight or 1am or something?

The only time I take the train is when I go to work, the only reason is parking costs. I consistently beat trains in my car, the other day I drove from Brooklyn to the Ground Zero (WTC) are in Manhattan, got lost on a couple of one ways, ended up having to drive part of the route again, parked, walked back to the store where I was meeting my friend. I beat him by 10 minutes, he was coming from Union Square by UNDERGROUND train.
This was his route

I drive in the city every weekend, I will go to Suffolk/Nassau county, Queens, Manhattan, Staten Island and so on and will still be faster than a train. To make it more fun despite NYC having one of the best transit systems in the country going from any borough that is not Manhattan to any borough that is not Manhattan is TERRIBLE. To get to Queens from my house is about 30-40 minutes by car (normal driving speed not being a dick) by train is easily over 2 hours. Simply because despite the fact that Queens and Brooklyn are both on Long Island the trains go through Manhattan. There is not a single train route that goes directly, you can transfer but that can easily add 10 minutes at least to your commute.

Basically out of my cold dead hands. If I have to buy a Prius just so I can keep driving I will do it but I will not be taking mass transit.

I'm not even going to go into how crowded the trains get and how uncomfortable and rage inducing the entire system is.
 
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Only 20km from a city of over half a million and no train and only one bus? That's mindblowingly poor!
Yes google says you live on the interstate :p

I am actually about half a km from that interstate junction so that isn't really far from the truth :lol:
 
Er, so what is your point? That public transportation doesn't work everywhere? Of course it doesn't; that's why you focus on increasing its use in metropolitan areas, not rural ones.

No, my point is that it won't work in most US metropolitan areas as they lack the needed population density. Just because a type of mass transit system works in NYC and Washington DC doesn't mean that the same idea will work in Dallas or Reno. Unfortunately, people promoting mass transit seem to be of the 'one size fits all' rail/bus mix persuasion, when that doesn't work.

Indeed, taking money away from roads and road maintenance to spend on mass transit that people don't use is a current and ongoing problem - as some people recently found out when their highway bridge collapsed into the Mississippi River.

That's kinda the point of the carpool lane, Spectre. There wouldn't be much reason to use it if it were just as congested as the other lanes. :lol:

Uh, not exactly. There should be some traffic in it, to indicate that people are willing to use it - instead, HOV lanes are usually quite empty, which is why motorcyclists call them 'Personal Motorcycle Lanes'. There's usually no cars in it.

Another option is to get away from the urban/suburban lifestyle. To most people this means moving into the city and high-density housing. That's fine for some people who want to live in that environment, but many of us don't do well in cities and need some space around us. When Tiff and I were looking for our current apartment we ruled out several places because they weren't near open space. Although I live in "high density" housing, my back windows and porch look out over the river and there is a large park next door. The point is that according to some urban planners single-family homes is something they are trying to discourage. They are doing much more to create modern "walkable" communities - and I applaud that. It's a great idea to have people shop, play and work close to where they live. It gets rid of this daily pilgrimage to the city center and nightly exodus to the suburbs. I just don't want to lose single-family homes in the process.

To counter this, high density housing has its own share of problems - starting with health issues (diseases rip right through high density housing), security issues (see Kitty Genovese), and safety issues - a madman blowing up a single residential building won't cause hundreds of casualties in most parts of Dallas, for example. Dispersal is a good thing.

***
Let me post an example of a mass transit system that would be a good idea for the more dispersed cities and areas of the US.:

MG-WHPR-FNT-EC-480.jpg

http://www.megarail.com/High_Speed_Rail/

MGMT-TRNH-DL-MR-480.jpg

http://www.megarail.com/MegaRail_Urban_Transit/

CR-FRY-PK.jpg

http://www.megarail.com/MegaRail_Urban_Transit/Private_Automobile/

It works in combination with the private automobile, not in opposition to it. It doesn't deprive the individual of the freedom to go wherever after getting off the system. And it's adaptable to personnel and cargo as well.

I happen to know the developers. Unfortunately, nobody in government anywhere in the last 15 years seems to be interested in the concept - even in Europe. They all want buses and conventional rail - which simply generally don't work well in dispersed US urban areas.
 
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Single yourneytime to Antwerp by car : 60 minutes, cost in fuel? about 10 bucks, Cost for wear/insurance/parking/everything else ? Meh? 5 Quid?

Yourneytime to Antwerp by public transport? About 175 minutes, cost? 12.50 bucks.

So for the measly price of just 2 hours each way I can save 2.5 euro's! 5 if I lose 4 hours by coming back the same day!

Public transportation! hell yeah! :p
Amsterdam - Antwerp would be 100min by car, while the Highspeed train would do it in 72 min, sure it is a ripoff at ?50 or more, but the slow train takes 127 min, while costing ?30. Now the question is how much the car journey will cost you? If you drive a Polo Bluemotion that could be less than ?10, but anyway in fuel you will likely be better off than taking any train, unless you value speed highly.

Public transport is a good option for highly populated areas, but outside of those it makes little sense. I think that the step over between car and public transport needs to be improved, so that you drive one leg of your journey and then take public transport to your work/city centre. If you live and work outside population centres, taking an empty bus is not going to improve efficiency. :p
 
Finally, someone in Europe who seems to get it. :D At least partially, anyway.
 
That's exactly what I did on Friday - drove most of the way to Boston, but got on the inner city train at the very first station :)
 
Somebody likes their W124s :lol:
I always thought that the Autotrain was perfect for broader use in the US: apart from the fact that the car comes with you, it's just like any other journey. Such a shame that it only runs between Washington DC and Orlando.

They were previously using XJ40 renders for their models, I happened to mention that that might not have been the greatest idea... :p
 
Somebody likes their W124s :lol:
I always thought that the Autotrain was perfect for broader use in the US: apart from the fact that the car comes with you, it's just like any other journey. Such a shame that it only runs between Washington DC and Orlando.
I would LOVE autotrains between DC, Boston, NYC, Philly maybe also if it extended down south a bit like GA or FL.

There is one other thing people tend to forget, even stuck in traffic I'm sitting in a leather seat with 11 speakers of German wiring fail hooked up to a Japanese navigation win, while the air inside is the perfect temperature that I like with ONLY the people I like/tolerate being there. Even if the train has 10-20 minute time advantage (easily offset by wait times) I am still on a hard plastic seat with a shitload of strangers....
 
I would LOVE autotrains between DC, Boston, NYC, Philly maybe also if it extended down south a bit like GA or FL.

There is one other thing people tend to forget, even stuck in traffic I'm sitting in a leather seat with 11 speakers of German wiring fail hooked up to a Japanese navigation win, while the air inside is the perfect temperature that I like with ONLY the people I like/tolerate being there. Even if the train has 10-20 minute time advantage (easily offset by wait times) I am still on a hard plastic seat with a shitload of strangers....

This. One of the few things my car is good at is being comfy. I can NAP in my car it is so comfy, and I have trouble napping on like, the couch or something. Also absurdly oversized dashboard makes a good table for snacks. Also no creepy hobos.
 
To counter this, high density housing has its own share of problems - starting with health issues (diseases rip right through high density housing), security issues (see Kitty Genovese), and safety issues - a madman blowing up a single residential building won't cause hundreds of casualties in most parts of Dallas, for example. Dispersal is a good thing.

Got any citations on this? My apartment has an outside door and the hallways are open to the outdoor air so there is no buildup of stale air. There are no elevators either.

Kitty Genovese was a problem with people, not with housing. My friends live in a part of town where everyone minds their own business and barely meets their neighbors, let alone getting involved in a crime in progress; however, my apartment complex had a series of car burglaries last year and everyone pulled together to look out for car prowls and people who don't live in the complex being there at odd hours. Minding your own damn business is not unique to high-density housing.

Seriously? You, of all people are invoking terrorist fearmongering? I expected better of you, Spectre.

I'm no fan of high-density living. I love my apartment, but I'm not in the middle of the city either. I'm not proposing a switch to high-density housing, merely stating that such a switch is an option. Some people love high-rise living, I'm just not one of them, I have the dream of someday owning my own house. I only bring this up because you are grasping at straws. If you can offer some real data to back up your claims of disease, I'll take a look at it. The security issue is crap, the case of Kitty Genovese is mandatory study to any first year undergraduate psych student and not once has the type of housing been brought up as a cause of her murder. If anything her case has become so well known that now half the people with cell phones dial 911 and the other half start filming it.
 
Public transport is a good option for highly populated areas, but outside of those it makes little sense. I think that the step over between car and public transport needs to be improved, so that you drive one leg of your journey and then take public transport to your work/city centre. If you live and work outside population centres, taking an empty bus is not going to improve efficiency. :p

Absolutely. That's what I do. I take my car to the smaller secondary terminal outside of my town, because it's closer to my home than the main terminal (and there's 3000 free parking spaces) and then hop on the bus. But before I became a busrider I worked in a very rural area where the buses only started running after I started work (05:37) and for that I needed my car. I love cars. The car is not going to go away, it's a necessity for some and it's got a billion good usages for everyone, for instance taking the weekly groceries home using public transport would suck.

What I don't like are people using cars when they shouldnt. The people who take their cars, by themselves, into the city center each morning despite the fact that public transport runs from their homes (or one of the free public transport parking depots) right up to their office entrance from early morning to midnight. I see these people all the time, watching them from my elevated position in the bus as I whizz by them in the buslane in the morning. And then in the afternoon they sit there again, alone in their cars causing congestion for all of us allowing me to to study their casual suit and middle manager fleetcar spec Volvo V70 Momentum with a few options (the bus lane out from the city is shorter than the one that goes in).

https://pic.armedcats.net/k/kn/knarkas/2011/04/06/parkering_buss.jpg
Free parking for public transport. I couldnt make the map bigger so I had to zoom out.

Bingo. Here, the subway comes every ten minutes during off-peak times and the buses every 20-40, and these are halved during rush hour. This doesn't give you much margin for error, though to be fair traffic and parking can do the same for car journeys. AiR, is this transit frequency comparable to what you see in Europe?

Pretty much. I actually haven't bothered memorizing when the lines run in the big city, I just go to the stop and look up at the monitors to see how much longer until something I want to go with comes along. I usually don't have to wait more than 3 minutes for something that gets me into the direction I want to during peak hours. Getting around the city is easy once you're in. Getting out of the city is the hard part. In 2013, we're going to get a congestion charge! It'll be interesting to see how that pans out.
 
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So I had to do a demo at the client site today so I drove there. BEST THING EVER even stuck in traffic was better than sitting on the train. Not to mention it was 1:20 each way as opposed to like 2 hours + wait time by train.
ou can offer some real data to back up your claims of disease, I'll take a look at it.
That one is kind of logical though. Close proximity of people to each other, one gets sick there is larger chance of others getting sick.

I agree with you on Kitty Genovese, had to learn about it in school. I'm sure you remember the actual term but as I learned it it basically was that when you have a lot of people you always assume someone else will take the responsibility. Since everyone thinks that way no one does anything. Nothing to do with housing at all, on the flip side if you live in the middle of the woods no chance of anyone helping you...
 
It's called Diffusion of Responsibility.

As for disease, that would be the case if you were sharing dirty halls and elevators or had everyone crammed into a single room, but that's not the case. Apartments have their own heating and air or use central radiant heat which won't transmit germs from one unit to the next. You have a greater chance of catching a disease by sitting in a cube-farm than you do in your own apartment, no matter how many people are living around you.
 
Got any citations on this? My apartment has an outside door and the hallways are open to the outdoor air so there is no buildup of stale air. There are no elevators either.

General tenet of epidemiology. You're also forgetting simple contact vectors - commonly handled implements like entry doors and keypad buttons become vectors. High density housing does not have to be low-quality to increase the spread of disease. Tuberculosis is a fun one, if you care to Google about the serious fight public health officials in the US are having with the resurgance of that disease in high density urban centers.

Here are some citations for you.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Vl...nepage&q=high density housing disease&f=false

From the Australian government:
At the same time, high rates of international travel (due to increased globalisation) combined with high density living has resulted in frequent episodes of sudden and rapid disease transmission.

From the British government:
The distribution and density of urban centres is also relevant to contingency planning for the spread of new ?emerging? diseases, whether arising ?naturally?, for example an influenza pandemic, or by deliberate release in an act of terrorism. In addition to the gen- eral issues of numbers and densities, the proximity of major urban areas to hubs of international travel, such as major airports, can be significant. It was through air travel that SARS cases were intro- duced into cities such as Toronto and Singapore in 2003 (McLean et al., 2005).
The challenges of containing the spread of disease in high den- sity urban areas is amplified if cities attract individuals who are of greater than average susceptibility or who have a contact structure that facilitates the spread of disease.

Princeton University has this comment on the spread of malaria.
In summary, the combination of high human density, high vector density, and lack of immunity in colonization areas is destined to produce malaria outbreaks.

The University of Nebraska at Lincoln also mentions this, with regards to the bedbug scourge (which again proves my point):
Bed bugs are non-discriminatory and will feed on anyone, but people in high-density housing are more likely to be infested.

Again, basic epidemiology. Let's also not forget this little paper, published in a peer-reviewed journal:
The superspreading events that occurred within hospital, hotel and high-density housing estate opens a new chapter in the mechanisms and routes of virus transmission.

I would also point out the following text which touches on your own field, Maxcy-Rosenau-Last's Public Health & Preventative Medicine, which I suggest you examine. Say around, oh, page 922, where they touch on social pathology and high-density housing.

Kitty Genovese was a problem with people, not with housing. My friends live in a part of town where everyone minds their own business and barely meets their neighbors, let alone getting involved in a crime in progress; however, my apartment complex had a series of car burglaries last year and everyone pulled together to look out for car prowls and people who don't live in the complex being there at odd hours. Minding your own damn business is not unique to high-density housing.

Seriously? You, of all people are invoking terrorist fearmongering? I expected better of you, Spectre.

I'm no fan of high-density living. I love my apartment, but I'm not in the middle of the city either. I'm not proposing a switch to high-density housing, merely stating that such a switch is an option. Some people love high-rise living, I'm just not one of them, I have the dream of someday owning my own house. I only bring this up because you are grasping at straws. If you can offer some real data to back up your claims of disease, I'll take a look at it. The security issue is crap, the case of Kitty Genovese is mandatory study to any first year undergraduate psych student and not once has the type of housing been brought up as a cause of her murder. If anything her case has become so well known that now half the people with cell phones dial 911 and the other half start filming it.

Not what I was getting at. Was pointing out that Kitty Genovese was made possible because of the usual architectural features of high density housing - namely blind corners and service areas (such as emergency stairwells) that are generally out of regular observation. The tactical rather than strategic issues of the case, as it were. Wikipedia has this to say:
When Robert Mozer, one of the neighbors, shouted at the attacker, "Let that girl alone!" Moseley ran away and Genovese slowly made her way toward the rear entrance of her apartment building.She was seriously injured, but now out of view of those few who may have had reason to believe she was in need of help...

...Eventually he found Genovese who was lying, barely conscious, in a hallway at the back of the building where a locked doorway had prevented her from entering the building. Out of view of the street and of those who may have heard or seen any sign of the original attack, he proceeded to further attack her, stabbing her several more times.

This is a problem endemic to high density housing, also high density office complexes.

However, since you appear to want to go there, if you think that because the case is well known people would think about it and respond accordingly, think again.

According to The New York Times, in an article dated December 28, 1974, ten years after the murder, 25-year-old Sandra Zahler was beaten to death early Christmas morning in an apartment of the building that overlooked the site of the Genovese attack. Neighbors again said they heard screams and "fierce struggles" but did nothing.

It isn't fearmongering if it's a clinical assessment of the factors involved. My point is simple - you eliminate some issues with a move to high density housing but at the same time you create or increase the chances of other issues, which can be just as serious if not more so. "Move everyone and everything to be closer together" has its own price.
 
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