Official: BMW M5 F10 Concept

Lastsoul

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As much as I like German engineering, there are things where simple solution would be much better. Or actually they just should have realized in the beginning that technology is not a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. My main complaint is their automatic coffee machines, you have to search a long time for a proper hand made cappuccino, while italians still know that you just can't make good coffee by automating the process.

Coffee and engine sounds, like all good things in life, are best when they're simple and pure. If you've just spend thousands of man-hours to create exhaust system to mute all the sounds the other engineering team has just created to make the V8 biturbo breath well, you then hire third team to design artificial sound created by communicating the amplifier with the ECU and putting the signal through complicated DSPs to create something you just removed. Active exhaust flaps. Shouldn't be that difficult. But that's old technology, there's no challenge, no new ways to make the car more complicated, no new acronyms to create.

And just like good old manual way of making espresso, there was nothing wrong with the original way producing the engine note through exhaust and intake.
 

Eunos_Cosmo

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Well spoken. You're rep should be arriving shortly.
 

Pininfarina_

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Browsing the few related videos on youtube regarding exhaust sounds/rev, I realize how lame this new V8 sounds compared to the V10.

All this talk about speakers feeding engine noise.....should've stuck with the V10.
 

edkwon

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Browsing the few related videos on
youtube regarding exhaust sounds/rev, I realize how lame this new V8 sounds compared to the V10.

All this talk about speakers feeding engine noise.....should've stuck with the V10.

And the older V8 sounds even better than the E60 V10 :)
 

Lastsoul

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Well, I've always preferred straight sixes to V8s so I might continue the theme, but I'll just say they've all sounded glorious, but maybe the E39 M5 still was the pinnacle of the evolution. Modern but simple enough to be old school driver's car. E60 M5 was maybe a bit flawed, but I still adore the concept of using almost race-car like V10 in a family saloon with 7-speed transmission that was shit in every way except in flat out driving. It wasn't a good allrounder, but it certainly wasn't dull.

Let's just hope the F10 M5 is just as good allrounder as the E39 M5 was and the technology hasn't made it dull.
 

edkwon

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Well, I've always preferred straight sixes to V8s so I might continue the theme, but I'll just say they've all sounded glorious, but maybe the E39 M5 still was the pinnacle of the evolution. Modern but simple enough to be old school driver's car. E60 M5 was maybe a bit flawed, but I still adore the concept of using almost race-car like V10 in a family saloon with 7-speed transmission that was shit in every way except in flat out driving. It wasn't a good allrounder, but it certainly wasn't dull.

Let's just hope the F10 M5 is just as good allrounder as the E39 M5 was and the technology hasn't made it dull.

I like the technology and engineering of the E60 V10, but having ridden in a few and hearing the same cars zoom away from me after being dropped off...not really a fan of the exhaust note. Plus those same drivers do complain they don't like how you have the rev the nuts off the engine to get into the powerband and no instant torque on tap. Plus even driven conservatively the fuel economy is still worse than the E39 V8. In a douchebag straight-line, racing-in-a-school-zone-internet-braggart drag race, the V10 E60 will definitely walk away from a stock E39 V8.

It's already pretty well established among the BMW ownership circles that once the F10 goes on sale in their respective markets, MANY E60 owners will be dumping their cars to upgrade and the secondhand market will flood with them, most who enjoyed their cars because they had no choice but to, but with the new one out, many of them will freely admit what they don't like about their cars. There are a lot of E60 owners on the BMW forums who admit how much they miss their E39 M5s and if it wasn't for the outdated interior technology and upkeep costs they would have kept their cars.
 
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jsausley

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Maybe it's just me but all the newer M5's seemed to have really put on the weight... not technically, but aesthetically. The cars have a lumbering appearance that makes them seem "fat."

My favorite M5's were the E28/E34/E39. :(
 

JohnnyRacer

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We heard you like the sound of your car. So, you can listen to your car, while you listen to your car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/23/active-sound-design-enhances-v8-burble-inside-bmw-m5/

Active Sound Design enhances V8 burble inside BMW M5.

Here's an interesting tidbit we missed while scouring through BMW's massive press release on the 2012 M5. According to the text, BMW has employed a system it's calling "Active Sound Design" on the new M5, which takes in engine speed and load data from the ECU and plumbs it through the stereo to play a real-time recording of the M5's engine.

Here's BMW's official explanation:

The Active Sound Design technology specially developed for the new BMW M5 takes its cues from the driving situation at any one time to deliver an accurate reproduction of the engine's sound through the car's audio system. The system's digital signal processing exchanges data directly with the engine management, allowing it to reflect the engine's revs and torque, and the car's speed over the road. The result over a smoothly driven journey is a discreet soundtrack in keeping with the harmonious and assured characteristics of the V8 powerplant. A stamp on the accelerator, meanwhile, prompts an immediate audible response to match the instantaneous ? and typically M ? burst of power from beneath the bonnet.

BMW claims the system provides an "extremely accurate impression of current engine load" and that the sound has been optimized to spread across the entire cabin. Not only that, but when Sport or Sport+ is engaged, the sound inside the M5 is enhanced and perfectly sequenced with induction, engine and exhaust noises. We're not sure if we're geeked or disturbed, but it's certainly trick.
 

Eunos_Cosmo

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That sounds stupid.

About the E60, anybody who says the gearbox is garbage is speaking complete....truth. It really is. It's actually unacceptably bad for a street car in any capacity. The engine is great. I really want to try one with a 6 speed manual instead. I think that would be just about the *perfect* M5.
 

TC

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Having never driven any M5 before, my opinion isn't worth much, but I think I prefer this new one to the old E60. I like the grunty V8 route more than the high revving V10 in such a big heavy luxo barge. It also kind of annoys me that the autocar reviewer above complained about the engine not being loud enough from inside. Because to me the M5 is suppose to be a luxury car, which means a nice quiet interior. You can still the hear that growl from the motor as he punched it, but it's not excessively loud to the point where it would deafen the occupants. I think that's a big plus in such a car. If you want a more focus performance machine, get an M3 GTS or something.
 

chaos386

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It also kind of annoys me that the autocar reviewer above complained about the engine not being loud enough from inside. Because to me the M5 is suppose to be a luxury car, which means a nice quiet interior. You can still the hear that growl from the motor as he punched it, but it's not excessively loud to the point where it would deafen the occupants. I think that's a big plus in such a car. If you want a more focus performance machine, get an M3 GTS or something.

And if he wanted a louder engine note, all he had to do was turn up the stereo! :tease:

Seriously, I'll defend the engine choice to the death, but faking the engine noise was a horrible move, IMO. It means that an owner won't have an aural experience any better than someone playing the next videogame the car shows up in. :thumbsdown:
 

TC

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Yeah, I read about that above too, but I imagine you can turn it off easy enough. It seems to have buttons and settings for everything else...
 

Eunos_Cosmo

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Having never driven any M5 before, my opinion isn't worth much, but I think I prefer this new one to the old E60. I like the grunty V8 route more than the high revving V10 in such a big heavy luxo barge. It also kind of annoys me that the autocar reviewer above complained about the engine not being loud enough from inside. Because to me the M5 is suppose to be a luxury car, which means a nice quiet interior. You can still the hear that growl from the motor as he punched it, but it's not excessively loud to the point where it would deafen the occupants. I think that's a big plus in such a car. If you want a more focus performance machine, get an M3 GTS or something.

I think, in general, you are right. A big, heavy, 4 door saloon needs a lot of torque. But that V10 was something magical.
 

TC

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I think, in general, you are right. A big, heavy, 4 door saloon needs a lot of torque. But that V10 was something magical.
Yep, it's a fantastic motor, I would just prefer it in something smaller and more focused. I think that's why I find myself strangely attracted to the BMW M6, even though it's a heavy weight too.
 

Pininfarina_

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Fake engine noise? It's totally not ok when ricers make their cars go BRUBROBOBORBUBURB, but place the word "active" or "dynamic" behind something and it's suddenly acceptable?

Which idiot allowed this to be implemented?
 

MadCow809

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Fake engine noise? It's totally not ok when ricers make their cars go BRUBROBOBORBUBURB, but place the word "active" or "dynamic" behind something and it's suddenly acceptable?

Which idiot allowed this to be implemented?

Maybe the same idiot that implemented the system in the new MK6 GTI.

It's just a trend, slowly more automotive manufacturer will try and perfect this system.
 

WillDAQ

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The principle is very simple:

- Drivers rely on engine noise as subconscious indicator of engine load
- New engines are far more quiet and better isolated from cabin
- Need to re-introduce some of the noise for the driver
- End up with refined car that's easy to drive
 

TC

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I remember reading a story about the new Mustangs having some sort of a pipe leading from the exhaust through the interior and back out, which was meant to increase the exhaust note inside the cabin, while keeping all other exterior noise to a minimum. Seems like a slightly better idea, although you can't turn it off, not that a real petrol head would want to.


Edit, found a link: http://thegarageblog.com/garage/2010-ford-mustang-gt-there-outta-be-a-law/

The well insulated cabin feels tight and quiet except for the wonderful sound of the exhaust which quite literally surrounds occupants with the sounds of battle. Engineers have created a sound tube which draws the exhaust noise inside just to make sure the driver gets a full hit of V8 music. This tube has removable baffles for those who want it even louder. Really though, the stock level is just about right as the engine is actually quite subdued when cruising yet one feels like Parnelli Jones when the hammer drops.
 

HatePersonified

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I remember reading a story about the new Mustangs having some sort of a pipe leading from the exhaust through the interior and back out, which was meant to increase the exhaust note inside the cabin, while keeping all other exterior noise to a minimum. Seems like a slightly better idea, although you can't turn it off, not that a real petrol head would want to.


Edit, found a link: http://thegarageblog.com/garage/2010-ford-mustang-gt-there-outta-be-a-law/

See I always figured even that solution was cheating a little, but certainly not rice in the sense of the BMW.

If you want to hear the goddamn motor, PUT A LOUD EXHAUST ON, FOR PETE'S SAKE!

(Here's Kreissieg doing it right, while BMW is doing it right.)

[video=youtube;jPI0PG-0ISE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPI0PG-0ISE[/video]
 
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