Okay fine, what's a good cheap RWD car then?

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Hmm, well then yay!

I've been seeing Mach 1 and 99/02 Cobras for less than $13k. There was even a local Mach 1 with 80k miles for $9,995. Too bad I didn't have the means to get it...
 
I think the F-body interior was 10x better than the New Edge interior, especially shifter placement. In the S197, they got the shifter right, and the interior is good enough for me.

How anyone can tolerate that much cheap plastic squeaking as it rubs together is beyond me. Friend had a 99 Camaro SS that was fast as balls but good lord was the interior shit.

But I am not a GM guy, although I tried to be.
 
Im still baffled at the idea that someone would willingly commit to not doing their own maintenance. Its like someone saying "No thank you sir, i dont want that payscale raise, i'd like to chew my own tongue off instead". Image issues? Fact of the matter is really, really attractive girls love guys in 4th gen camaros (they dont know what the hell it is other than its loud and fast, only car nerds pretend we are toothless rednecks), like supermodel-attractive. the ugly redneck ones are usually hanging around the lifted truck boys. Im as baffled as you are about this...

ps: Mustangs are slow, so are evos. but mustangs are REALLY slow.

pps: Fun fact you must be interested to hear, I'm personally currently 2 and 0 against Viper SRT-10's in drag races, as in i raced 2 and won both times. This on a 'maro modified on a student budget, still stock displacement, still N/A.
 
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Fact of the matter is really, really attractive girls love guys in 4th gen camaros (they dont know what the hell it is other than its loud and fast, only car nerds pretend we are toothless rednecks), like supermodel-attractive. the ugly redneck ones are usually hanging around the lifted truck boys. Im as baffled as you are about this...

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Sorry, i dont have a time slip or something to prove it, it's just my word against yours. Its not like i said attractive girls like camaros as a brand name, more that they like loud, fast, flashy cars.
 
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Sorry, i dont have a time slip or something to prove it, it's just my word against yours. Its not like i said attractive girls like camaros as a brand name, more that they like loud, fast, flashy cars.

That explains why every time I go to a car show, the girls cluster around the Jag and the Camaro section looks like a sausage-fest. Oh, wait... :p :mrgreen: :evil:
 
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.... why the hell would attractive girls go to a car show? To look at.... stationary cars?


"Hey girls, you know what i wanna do tonight? Hang out with a bunch of car nerds and talk about oil viscosity and cams!"
 
.... why the hell would attractive girls go to a car show? To look at.... stationary cars?


"Hey girls, you know what i wanna do tonight? Hang out with a bunch of car nerds and talk about oil viscosity and cams!"

The good ones go to show off their own cars, genius.
 
Guys, remember, the purpose of this thread is to get Viper a car in which he can get a better understanding of how to handle a powerful rear drive car, not find a car that will be as fast or faster than a Viper. It really doesn't matter how hard a car is to service or how big the aftermarket it is if he is only going to keep as long as necessary to prepare himself for the car he actually wants.
 
Than keep it stock, save the money. But dont intentionally buy the slower option, if that (slow, right wheel drive) is your goal than we're right back to the miata discussion.


Camaro section looks like a sausage-fest.

Ls1 'maro looks like a chrysler sebring, dont know what else to tell you. I'd sooner have a SN197 than that ugly ass car.
 
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Than keep it stock, save the money. But dont intentionally buy the slower option, if that (slow, right wheel drive) is your goal than we're right back to the miata discussion.

He's basically said the Miata is right out.

You're ignoring the cheap part. Mustangs have lower maintenance and repair costs than pretty much anything else in the class. More money for Viper.
 
Even if that is true, the maintenance difference will be small, even negligible, certainly not enough to make any significant savings in viper savings. Eating out less or getting a second job is a far better option than choosing one car over the other.
 
Even if that is true, the maintenance difference will be small, even negligible, certainly not enough to make any significant savings in viper savings. Eating out less or getting a second job is a far better option than choosing one car over the other.

Uh, now you're missing the point. He already has the cash to buy a Viper, he's not going to be keeping whatever he gets, he wants to get something cheap, have it stay cheap while he's learning to drive RWD (and again, the F-body's insurance and crash stats say that's a bad choice), and then sell it out afterwards for minimal or no loss so he can have the most money left when he buys his Viper in a year or so. The F-body is not a good candidate for this position.

If we were discussing something like "Which pony car should I buy to keep for an indefinite period" the story would be different. But that isn't the question that's been posed.

Seriously, I don't know why you guys are disputing this. The F-Body's crash stats just don't bear out your position that it's a good car to learn in. The insurance is cheaper for a goddamned full-house CORVETTE than an F-Body V8 for crissakes.
 
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Crashing cars gets expensive in a hurry no matter what he's in. If the idea is to give a responsible adult a scary car to teach him respect for power, the f-body is spot on. If this is a cheap stopgap so he's got a little torque, than i suppose it doesnt matter. You're the one that said i was "forgetting the cheap aspect". Also used car prices are kind of going up, not down(1), especially if people still cant afford new cars in a year or two. I dont expect a good condition f-body to go for much less than it does now, they're not exactly new cars and depreciating like rocks.

Given your feelings on the administration, i dont think your outlook on economic recovery is rosy, is it?

Source:
(1)http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3399061
 
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Crashing cars gets expensive in a hurry no matter what he's in. If the idea is to give a responsible adult a scary car to teach him respect for power, the f-body is spot on.

No, it's to give him a reasonably powerful car that doesn't want to kill him and isn't quite so easy to crash.

You are misinterpreting the data. Fact: Camaro rates are significantly higher than Corvette and Mustang rates. The reason for this is that despite lower sales Camaro V8s got wrapped around light poles at a much higher rate than Mustang GTs did. Insurance companies raise the rates on crash-prone cars or cars that cause more property damage when they do crash. At one point in the 2000s, insurance on the Camaro SS was actually averaging (IIRC) 180% of what it was for the Mustang Cobra; this is one reason cited by the historians for the sales slump and resulting end of F-body production at that time.

Despite the specifications and (arguable) design, the fact of the matter is that in the real world, the F-Body is more likely to wind up wrapped around a bridge piling, light stanchion, or found on its roof upside down in a ditch. This is why the insurance rates are like they are. Feel free to call any major insurance company and ask their actuarial department for verification.

If this is a cheap stopgap so he's got a little torque, than i suppose it doesnt matter. You're the one that said i was "forgetting the cheap aspect". Also used car prices are kind of going up, not down, especially if people still cant afford new cars in a year or two. I dont expect a good condition f-body to go for much less than it does now, they're not exactly new cars and depreciating like rocks.

The used car market seems to have reached a high water; now people are getting desperate and selling their toys or consolidating, so some segments of the car market are starting to drop. Muscle/pony cars are one of those segments, especially given the current trend in gas prices. Econoboxes? I don't see those prices dropping any time soon. "Gas-guzzlers"? Yeah, starting to freefall. I saw an X300 XJR recently go for $3600.

Given your feelings on the administration, i dont think your outlook on economic recovery is rosy, is it?

What recovery?
 
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I assumed its spectacular crash rate is simply a case of daddy buying his teenage son a car he couldnt handle. If this were my kid he certainly wouldnt getting a f-body, but vipers are the same way, its almost like.... a baby viper, if you will.

As Spectre mentioned, I'm mostly looking for a baby Viper here both in terms of power and handling characteristics.

Lets put aside the initial investment money-tie-up issue for a moment. If he's trying to train himself on a cheap car, do you honestly think the mustang is as viper like? When i drive SN97's it feels fine, but not crazy, it doesnt "yank" you, you dont have to fight for traction, its as if it has a strong v6. There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself but it sounds to me a lot less viper like.

You're right in that the camaro is more likely to crash which would eat up his savings, but he could just as easily be out driving his mustang one day and get t-boned by an escalade. I've never come close to crashing in 4 years of ownership (much of it spent on the dangerous end of 150 mph), and if he's smart with his right foot i dont see why viper cant come out of this clean either. What doesnt kill you makes your driving ability stronger.
 
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Lolstereotypes. I associate both the F-body and the Mustang with the redneckiest of rednecks, so he's gonna get it either way. Well, that and girls, in the case of the Mustang. Seriously, even my parents thought about getting me a Mustang as a first car. Point being: every car has some kind of silly stereotype, so screw the haters and go with the one that makes YOU the happiest.

Any love for an old Datsun Z? There's another cheap RWD frequent LeMons competitor that I brain-farted on mentioning earlier. I don't think the engine would be as torquey as the muscle cars, but I thought I'd throw that out there anyway.

As much as I love arse-engined cars (and really love 911s), I can't recommend one here. The rump kinda wiggles around on braking because of the mass in the back, and the completely different layout makes it a completely different animal from a Viper. I do need a 911 for myself, though...hee hee hee.
 
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Not a big fan of Camaros. I'd rather get a Mustang.

I don't see the point in arguing which is better in this thread given the quote above. Come up with another car suggestion or give advice on the Mustang. He won't modify it as it will kill the resale value.

Viper, have you looked into an early 350z?
 
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Viper, have you looked into an early 350z?
Cue the domestic brand faction telling you about spare parts prices, availability and aftermarket, even though under the given circumstances, only spare part prices matter, as Viper won't mod the car and if he does not service it himself, getting the spare pars will be his garage's problem.
 
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