on taxes, socialism and the pursuit of happiness...

ryosuke

ryosuke

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i know that this happiness list was already posted in another thread, but i think together with the tax rates to have a comparison it deserves its own thread.

since there is so much debate about taxes being too high and fears of growing "socialism" are spread everywhere, i thought we should compare income tax rates and and the perceived happiness in different countries:


so here is the top ten of countries with the happiest inhabitants, together with first the countries' tax revenue as a percentage of the gross domestic product, second the mean income tax rate as a percentage of peoples' income and third the VAT.


happiness rank - tax revenue per GDP - mean income tax rate - VAT

01. denmark - 50.3% - 42% - 25%
02. switzerland - 29.7% - 29.5% - 7.6%
03. austria - 42.0% - 47% - 20%
04. iceland - 42.4% - 29% - 24.5%
05. bahamas - unknown - unknown - unknown
06. finland - 43.9% - 44% - 22%
07. sweden - 51.3% - 47% - 25%
08. bhutan - unknown - unknown - unknown
09. brunei - unknown - unknown - unknown
10. canada - 33.4 - 32% - 5%


23. united states - 27.3% - 29% - 0%



so it appears that paying the highest taxes in the world doesn't stop the scandinavians from being relatively happy.


data was taken from:

happiness - http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2006/gb20061011_072596.htm

tax revenue -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

income tax -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

vat -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT#VAT_Rates
 
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This word "socialism" is thrown around too much as if we're to be like the brainwashed idiots who equate it with evil, evil red communism. You like having libraries, don't you? How about a police force? Firefighers? I'll give you one guess as to how those things get paid for...
 
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You can't really compare the United States to those countries. A difference in tax rate is only one of many differences between the United States and the countries listed.

Your argument is similar to this one:

http://img248.imageshack.**/img248/4820/piratesarecool46495455te1.gif
 
And if you'll look closely, you may also see a marked incident of dog farts right at the time when the world's major ocean currents were at their lowest point of activity since at least 2004.

Coincidence? I think nawt.

a-HA.gif
 
How about this:

Happiness rank - percent of population 'black'

01. denmark - <1%
02. switzerland - <1%
03. austria - <1%?
04. iceland - <1%
05. bahamas - X
06. finland - <1%
07. sweden -<1%
08. bhutan - X
09. brunei - X
10. canada - 3%

23. united states - 12.85%

Ergo, white people are happier when there aren't many blacks around. How does that conclusion grab you?
 
i never said that high taxes would equal happy citizens. i just said:"it does not stop them from being happy."
and low taxes do not equal happy citizens either.

just a hint to all those miserable people who live in constant fear of so called "socialism." :)
 
None of those countries are socialistic. Or socialist, if thats the right word. Debating politics in english is hard. :)
 
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h-p said:
None of those countries are socialistic.
Click to expand...
Uh, they're not? Many of them have social post-secondary education systems, health care, and welfare programs. Every country has some degree of socialism present in it. So how can you say they are not socialistic?
 
^It's the speed camera's.
 
Twerp128 said:
^It's the speed camera's.
Click to expand...

In the list of 'things that make the British unhappy', speed cameras wouldn't make the top 10.

Number one would be the weather and number two politicians (of any party).
 
Cobol74 said:
Teeb Don't like the weather, wait 5 mins there will be some more along, usually worse?
Click to expand...

That reminds me, number three on the list of Britain's biggest gripes : the buses. Wait half an hour for none then three come at once!

Also I reserve the right to moan, 1500 words at a time, about the British weather, as it sucks giant bags of dicks. Today it's not rained for the first time in a week. And I'm celebrating this?
 
Vector said:
Uh, they're not? Many of them have social post-secondary education systems, health care, and welfare programs. Every country has some degree of socialism present in it. So how can you say they are not socialistic?
Click to expand...

Here is every socialist country in the world, ever. None of the countries above is one of those.
 
You forgot to mention that the culture of the country is wholly dependent on your theory, and America is a capitalist culture.

We also may not be the happiest because IIRC we are one of the top five countries that put in long work hours. And the average vacation time here is around 10 business days, and unlike some Scandanavian coutries, it is NOT government mandated.

To say that "paying high taxes equals happiness" is absurd. Like othesr that reminded me on my views concerning socialism, nothing is black and white.
 
I'd say that while taxation shouldn't be used to show direct correlation between happiness and taxes paid it can serve as an indicator. The state having more funds available to them usually means more public services being offered to citizens.

Not having to worry whether or not you can pay your medical bill or not having to think about how to find a new job in time before the next rent comes means less stress. It also means that infrastructure will be maintained properly and cultural programs will be offered. All services that relate to the quality of daily life.

What it boils down to is the fact that the middle/lower class don't have to worry as much in Europe about their existantial well being.

What bugs me about those sort of discussions is the you rarely see the downsides or the pro's of either model mentioned. Since this already became another Europe/USA thread allow me to ramble on for a bit.

While the European system provides it cushions you. Meaning people can become apathic and just settle for what the state has to offer. You'll find a lot of people in Europe who just plain gave up on work. Furthermore it usually means a slow and inflexible job market. Employers will think twice about hiring new people with the laws protecting the employee we have in place here. German companies for instance prefer to just go with overtime instead of hiring new staff. High employee on-costs also mean that you cost your employer twice as much as what you see at the end of the month. All of this is mainly why you see high numbers of unemployment here (Depending on the European nation of course).

The US system however works on not providing as a motivator. Employee protection is little, unemployment benifits run out in weeks and employee on-costs are low. This benefits both employer and employee if the economy does well. You won't see long stretches of unemployment since there are jobs available. Employers can expiriment a little and hire you without having to fear to be stuck with you. Taxes are low which means that employees have better purchasing power compared to Europeans and will be able to afford more in the end. Employers will report higher gains which drives investment.

Still there? Okay, here's the end part. Is one of the systems better than the other?

There's no real answer to that. It largely depends an where you want to be in life. If you plan on staying middle class and have a relatively worryless life the European model could be more suited. However, if you have ambitions and want to earn money or start a business the US model looks more promising. After all the term is American Dream. Ever heard of a European Dream? Me neither.

I guess the fundamental difference is that Americans look forward to become rich one day. They're the only nation I know of where people seem to have the indestructible belief that it's their turn one day. Europeans are more conservative. We got used to what we have and usually are realistic about the fact that there probably isn't a pile of money in our life one day.
 
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Austria and Switzerland both have unusually high suicide raters, so maybe its just people rather say their happy when their doing alright, then associate themselves with the uncle who blew his head off.

Personally i'd rather tell people i'm okay when i'm doing rather good, otherwise i'd feel like a pompus prick.
 
h-p said:
Here is every socialist country in the world, ever. None of the countries above is one of those.
Click to expand...
Who is talking about socialist states? Can you quote one instance? Because I thought we were talking about socialistic states. Meaning, exhibiting certain tendencies of socialism. And those countries most certainly do.
 
Vector said:
Who is talking about socialist states? Can you quote one instance? Because I thought we were talking about socialistic states. Meaning, exhibiting certain tendencies of socialism. And those countries most certainly do.
Click to expand...

As you can see I edited my orginal post. Mixed up two similar words in a foreign language.
You are right about that they do have some elements from socialism. So they are socialistic, I orginally meant to write socialist.
 
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