Pagani Zonda F; 7:27:82 at Nurburgring, fastest production car ever!

marcos_eirik

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My estimation is Walter will be 5 seconds faster than HvS at least.
R?hrl did a 7:29 in the 997 GT2 according to an interview with him in 911 & Porsche World. He said that there must be an end to such cars soon, as he did that lap time the Industry Week. With lots of traffic he had a huge moment out of "Tiergarten" where the driver of an Audi A3 wasn't paying attention to his mirrors, as he went sideways while R?hrl came past doing 310 km/h in the GT2. He then said to Porsche that: "It's finished with these fast cars, you cannot do this anymore. Either you have a closed road or forget about it, it's too dangerous now"

Walter R?hrl's private cars are a 964 Carrera RS and a 997 GT3 RS and a 997 Turbo with the two latter being his company cars.

Scans of said interview can be provided if you like...

Btw; Welcome over from DS, Uwe... :wave:
 

Buba

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Yep, post the interview, Walter is da man!

@ Uwe: Totally forgot the new mag is out today. Have to go and get it later...
 

Uwe

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R?hrl did a 7:29 in the 997 GT2 according to an interview with him in 911 & Porsche World. He said that there must be an end to such cars soon, as he did that lap time the Industry Week. With lots of traffic he had a huge moment out of "Tiergarten" where the driver of an Audi A3 wasn't paying attention to his mirrors, as he went sideways while R?hrl came past doing 310 km/h in the GT2. He then said to Porsche that: "It's finished with these fast cars, you cannot do this anymore. Either you have a closed road or forget about it, it's too dangerous now"

Walter R?hrl's private cars are a 964 Carrera RS and a 997 GT3 RS and a 997 Turbo with the two latter being his company cars.

Scans of said interview can be provided if you like...

Btw; Welcome over from DS, Uwe... :wave:
Greetings back. :)

I sent you a PM concerning the scan.
 

Uwe

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Thanks very much. :thumbup:

Edit: Just read it. Very interesting also his search for the 964 RS. Someone I know well had one and sold it two years ago for a healthy amount of money (not to WR). I asked him why and he told me the car would ultimately cost him his driving licence. :D
 
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LeMans GTR

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If the Zonda F can run the "ring" that fast, I wonder what the Zonda R will do.
 

stinger

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Has anyone put the Veyron around the Ring?
How fast would it go?
It has a lot of power but it is a heavyweight so I think it should be equal to the F becuase the power the the weight should balance out.
 

Uwe

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Has anyone put the Veyron around the Ring?
How fast would it go?
It has a lot of power but it is a heavyweight so I think it should be equal to the F becuase the power the the weight should balance out.
Sport Auto asked for a test drive on the Ring but this was rejected by Bugatti. You remember what happened when TG wanted to let the Stig drive the Veyron round their track?

Seems Bugatti is fearing that the Veyron is beaten on a race track by something like an Atom (which I think would happen).
 

Necx0

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I actually think the Veyron would be very quick. Nurburgring is exceptionally high speed and Veyron gets to high speed quicker than anything and there isn't too much quick change of direction. I would guess probably between 7min30 and 7min40secs.
 

Ottobon

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Carrera GT > any recent Ferrari for me in terms of aesthetics and sound and simplicity (I can't really judge the driving characteristics)

Simplicity?!? And how is making a car thats billed as fast yet can't handle properly worthwhile? I mean when in the 80s Mazda was particularly terrible at suspension Geometry, making such twitchy wonders as the early RX7s, they still found gold once they tried a double-wishbone setup. When Porsche tried it on the CGT, a company that undoubtedly has much more manpower and no-how then lowly Mazda, they ended up with a car that only ever fancied corners as a place to kill the driver.

On the Issue of sound, Sure the CGT plays a nice scale, and its impressive in its ability to ring at such a high tone, but there is absolutely NOTHING impressive about the way it plays those scales or high tones. It doesn't sound as much like a engine as it really should, it just sounds like a overtly smooth stream of high-pitch madness.

Furthermore it has NO dynamics to its sound, its always high-pitch, and never nothing else. Take that in comparison to something like this (let play for at least 30 seconds) and i find it hard to see what you guys are on about.


Ontopic: I'd rather have the Zonda as it handles with some ability to communicate its limit, unlike the CGT which seems to just kill people for fun. I will admit that I think the CGT looks prettier and that the exhaust notes are on-par with each-other etc, Its just what i've heard about the handling that makes the CGT seem not worth-while.
 
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Suedschleife

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Simplicity?!? And how is making a car thats billed as fast yet can't handle properly worthwhile? I mean when in the 80s Mazda was particularly terrible at suspension Geometry, making such twitchy wonders as the early RX7s, they still found gold once they tried a double-wishbone setup. When Porsche tried it on the CGT, a company that undoubtedly has much more manpower and no-how then lowly Mazda, they ended up with a car that only ever fancied corners as a place to kill the driver.

On the Issue of sound, Sure the CGT plays a nice scale, and its impressive in its ability to ring at such a high tone, but there is absolutely NOTHING impressive about the way it plays those scales or high tones. It doesn't sound as much like a engine as it really should, it just sounds like a overtly smooth stream of high-pitch madness.

Furthermore it has NO dynamics to its sound, its always high-pitch, and never nothing else. Take that in comparison to something like this (let play for at least 30 seconds) and i find it hard to see what you guys are on about.


Ontopic: I'd rather have the Zonda as it handles with some ability to communicate its limit, unlike the CGT which seems to just kill people for fun. I will admit that I think the CGT looks prettier and that the exhaust notes are on-par with each-other etc, Its just what i've heard about the handling that makes the CGT seem not worth-while.

Do you have any links where I could read up on the handling issues? Not trying to say it isn't true, just the reviews I seen so far praise the handling. I remember the Ben Keaton crash where the car was blamed by many, but I haven't seen any evidence to support the claims.
 

Necx0

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The trickiness of the Carrera GT is what makes me love it. Not just any fool can get in it and go crazy fast (not saying they could in an Enzo or a Zonda). Maybe they made it knife-edge but you get a bigger reward when you get it right. I do love the Zonda though, there is definitely a place for it in my dream garage.
 

Uwe

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Nurburgring is exceptionally high speed and Veyron gets to high speed quicker than anything and there isn't too much quick change of direction.
This isn't quite true. There are some high speed sections but the Ring isn't lacking the twisty bits as well where you can easily loose what you've gained before. And I'm speaking from experience with a car with low top speed (relatively).
 

Uwe

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Simplicity?!? And how is making a car thats billed as fast yet can't handle properly worthwhile? I mean when in the 80s Mazda was particularly terrible at suspension Geometry, making such twitchy wonders as the early RX7s, they still found gold once they tried a double-wishbone setup. When Porsche tried it on the CGT, a company that undoubtedly has much more manpower and no-how then lowly Mazda, they ended up with a car that only ever fancied corners as a place to kill the driver.
The CGT may not be the easiest to drive but most people that kill themselves are idiots who don't realize that 1350 kg and 612 bhp may be a dangerous combination. Watch the video from Eddie Griffin in the Enzo - a bloody idiot being caught faster than he could say "power to weight ratio".
 

Necx0

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This isn't quite true. There are some high speed sections but the Ring isn't lacking the twisty bits as well where you can easily loose what you've gained before. And I'm speaking from experience with a car with low top speed (relatively).

Yes of course the 'Ring is very twisty. But there are few quick left-right transitions was my point. The run down the hill from the Karussell (Hohe Acht, Wipperman etc.) could be tricky in something so heavy.

Also Hocheichen and Adenauer Forst would be tricky as well, however it would have great traction out of these slow corners. The time it would make up through Kesselchen would be enormous as well.

However if you still disagree I will bow to local knowledge of course!!!
 

Uwe

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Yes of course the 'Ring is very twisty. But there are few quick left-right transitions was my point. The run down the hill from the Karussell (Hohe Acht, Wipperman etc.) could be tricky in something so heavy.

Also Hocheichen and Adenauer Forst would be tricky as well, however it would have great traction out of these slow corners. The time it would make up through Kesselchen would be enormous as well.

However if you still disagree I will bow to local knowledge of course!!!
At least this is my experience. I once followed the Zakspeed Ringtaxi Viper which usually is even faster than Sabines M5 Ringtaxi. At the end of Schwedenkreuz and Kesselchen (the two highspeed sections beside D?ttinger H?he) he had put some distance between himself and me but as soon as it got more twisty I was at his rear bumper again. And this with a Caterham topspeed of 135 mph (and for sure I'm not the best driver).
 

bartboy9891

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Simplicity?!? And how is making a car thats billed as fast yet can't handle properly worthwhile? I mean when in the 80s Mazda was particularly terrible at suspension Geometry, making such twitchy wonders as the early RX7s, they still found gold once they tried a double-wishbone setup. When Porsche tried it on the CGT, a company that undoubtedly has much more manpower and no-how then lowly Mazda, they ended up with a car that only ever fancied corners as a place to kill the driver.

On the Issue of sound, Sure the CGT plays a nice scale, and its impressive in its ability to ring at such a high tone, but there is absolutely NOTHING impressive about the way it plays those scales or high tones. It doesn't sound as much like a engine as it really should, it just sounds like a overtly smooth stream of high-pitch madness.

Furthermore it has NO dynamics to its sound, its always high-pitch, and never nothing else. Take that in comparison to something like this (let play for at least 30 seconds) and i find it hard to see what you guys are on about.


Ontopic: I'd rather have the Zonda as it handles with some ability to communicate its limit, unlike the CGT which seems to just kill people for fun. I will admit that I think the CGT looks prettier and that the exhaust notes are on-par with each-other etc, Its just what i've heard about the handling that makes the CGT seem not worth-while.

When I said simplicity, I merely meant it follows a lot of the old supercar ideals. While Ferrari and Lamborghini are starting to use paddle shifters more and more, Porsche stuck with a traditional 6-speed manual. While Ferrari have lost their way completely when it comes to styling, the Carrera GT is instantly recognizable as a Porsche while still being stunning to look at. It weighs the exact same as an Enzo but has creature comforts and a well designed and interesting interior (as does the Zonda). And as far as I know, Porsche didn't decide whether or not you were worthy to own a Carrera GT like Ferrari did with the Enzo.
 

Necx0

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At least this is my experience. I once followed the Zakspeed Ringtaxi Viper which usually is even faster than Sabines M5 Ringtaxi. At the end of Schwedenkreuz and Kesselchen (the two highspeed sections beside D?ttinger H?he) he had put some distance between himself and me but as soon as it got more twisty I was at his rear bumper again. And this with a Caterham topspeed of 135 mph (and for sure I'm not the best driver).

You must be decent though to keep up with the Zakspeed Viper! Brave man doing the 'Ring in a Caterham. Heard them described as "coffin on wheels" at the last hillclimb I did.
 

maximus

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Ontopic: I'd rather have the Zonda as it handles with some ability to communicate its limit, unlike the CGT which seems to just kill people for fun. I will admit that I think the CGT looks prettier and that the exhaust notes are on-par with each-other etc, Its just what i've heard about the handling that makes the CGT seem not worth-while.

Of course you have driven both haven't you? I love Zondas, especially the F, which is my favorite supercar. However Richard Hammond put it rather well in the Supercars in France film a while ago, its easy round town but drive it properly and it will have your arm off.

I also haven't heard many stories about the Porsche CGT being a killer, do you have any links to any? I am confident that more Enzos have been wrecked however.
 
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