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Peak-oil explained (Dutch) **Update: English version too **

omg........u sound like renesis "gimme pics gimme articles" i dont really care about this matter i;m stepping out it getting too hostile
 
I just asked if you could give me an article that supports the things you say? How hostile is that? Or did you just make it up?
 
Ethanol should really be the short term solution for powering cars, because a normal Combustion Engines could run with it. I also think that Shell is investigating something they call Sun diesel, diesel made out of Biomass. So the combustion engine should survive even if we run out of crude oil. Whether we will be able to build cars without oil is another question though.

But i dont believe that Hydrogen will become the fuel of the future, simply because it is rather difficult to keep hydrogen, H2 is the smallest molecule, so it goes through everything, even through the tank it is stored in. But because of the low pollution of Hydrogen fuel cells(just water :D ), it is certainly an option in areas with high congestion, like LA or other Megacities. But not outside in the countryside.
 
I wonder if the US will be one of the first to invest in something like that, wasn't the policy Economics (market) > pollution ?
 
hajj said:
But i dont believe that Hydrogen will become the fuel of the future, simply because it is rather difficult to keep hydrogen, H2 is the smallest molecule, so it goes through everything, even through the tank it is stored in. But because of the low pollution of Hydrogen fuel cells(just water :D ), it is certainly an option in areas with high congestion, like LA or other Megacities. But not outside in the countryside.
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Ok, just because a molecule is small it doesn't mean that it goes through everything. There are hydrogen tanks out there, made of metal that even their atoms are bigger than the molecule, and the hydrogen gas doesn't just seep through the walls. where do you get your theories from ?

Yeah, I agree that it's hard to store and maneuver, and very very highly flamable (but so is petrol), but it's really not that hard to contain.

EDIT: Actually, they've already implemented some hydrogen applications for California. Last time I heard there were somewhere from 4 to 8 hydrogen fueling stations in the state already. But nowhere else, just in Cali. Not many hydrogen cars though, so I don't see the point, but I think there are a couple of hydrogen driven busses.
 
I do believe that u can store hydrogen, but not for such a long time as u could store petrol. I will seep through at a quicker rate than pertol will, nothing can be stored forever, just face it. I dont know about the rate at which hydrogen will disapear, but it should be higher than other element because of its small molecules.


They are planning to install hydrogen fuelpumps in Germany, when they finish it u should be able to drive a round through Germany passing all major car producers in the country. This is done for the purpose of testing hydrogen powered cars on public roads, and that might be reason in California as well. ;)

But as I said before hydrogen is the best solution for big cities with smog issues. :) But I smiply hope, that I will be using combustion engines for a long time in future :D :D

And please dont meantion BMW solution of an hydrogen combustion engine, because they have still issues with pollution.
 
hajj said:
Ethanol should really be the short term solution for powering cars, because a normal Combustion Engines could run with it. I also think that Shell is investigating something they call Sun diesel, diesel made out of Biomass. So the combustion engine should survive even if we run out of crude oil. Whether we will be able to build cars without oil is another question though.
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isn't ethanol already used in brazil... I heard that in the petrol, there is about 10% of Ethanol in it... but I think the solution now is to use Hybrid cars... although it still produces pollution, but lets face reality, its not going to be for another 100 years till someone develops an engine that has power and gives out zero pollution... Toyota has played the right card, they know people don't want to drive ugly cars like the prius, so they have a Lexus RX400h that runs on the same concept as the prius and I can definetly see this becoming a success
 
I think, knowing how humans act a whole, that we will go on mindlessly until we run out of oil, and then the whole world's infrastructure will crumble, and those who do survive the mass famine and death that will occur will start everything back up again.

Hahaha, it could happen though....

In reality I think there is a healthy push in the world to produce an alternative to all the world's dependencies on oil. I think that within the next decade or so, we will see more efforts to move away from oil. But it is going to be hard for many things to get big time support becuase so many of the rich and powerful (Bush family as a subtle example) are connected to the oil industy. That might be a big problem.

In the end, I am optimistic that everything will work out, but once we do run out of fossil fuels, the world will change dramatically for sure.
 
If you think life will not go on... how did life get to this point in the first place...

We haven't always used plastics for everything. Remember when you bought stuff and it lasted a hell of a long time... because it wasn't built so cheaply (ie without plastics)

For all those that are worried.

a) we won't run out of power. Hell australia by itself has enough coal for another 200 years.

b) pesticides are made from oil based products yes, but only cause its cheaper to do that. There are other non oil based ways of doing it.

c) when we don't use plastics anymore, we'll go back to what we used before. metals, wax paper etc...

vladmitu:

Good to hear that you are very interested in a renewable source of energy. Work hard mate!
 
No no, the first part of my post was talking about something that probably won't happen, but it can.

What I meant was that the civilized world depends on oil, if you take oil away, the civilized world will become uncivilized. A mass famine would most likely follow becuase there would be little to no transportation to feed eveybody. To the societies that do not depend on oil, they would continue on their daily lives most likely.
 
I dont think we have to worry for plastics... I am pretty sure that there must be a way to clone plastic cells... it will be produce and not a derivate of oil what do you think? :lol:
 
Leppy said:
c) when we don't use plastics anymore, we'll go back to what we used before. metals, wax paper etc...
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously. Do you have any idea how important plastics are? If you look at a detailed overview of man's advancements in materials technology, we depend on plastics today more than we depended on metals during the industrial revolution. Plastics also don't mean 'cheap'. Since when did a choice of car interior dictate the importance of something?

God forbid anything ever happen to you, would you prefer to have your IV bags and tubing made out of leather and woodgrain?
 
///M said:
Leppy said:
c) when we don't use plastics anymore, we'll go back to what we used before. metals, wax paper etc...
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously. Do you have any idea how important plastics are? If you look at a detailed overview of man's advancements in materials technology, we depend on plastics today more than we depended on metals during the industrial revolution. Plastics also don't mean 'cheap'. Since when did a choice of car interior dictate the importance of something?

God forbid anything ever happen to you, would you prefer to have your IV bags and tubing made out of leather and woodgrain?
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Mate rubber could easily be subsituted. Rubber comes from trees.
 
Natural rubber can't compare with synthetic polymers. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Like I said, I'd love to see the countless medical products made from synthetic polymers that save millions of lives being made with something else. Simply wouldn't work. It would be idiotic for man to go back to natural materials, when we came so far with synthetic alternatives that can be altered to suit whatever application is needed.

I'm not worried about supplies, because there are going to be majour advances in materials, as it has always been the case. I'm just peeved at the fact that in this day in age, someone would think we can live without petroleum-derived plastics. especially someone who's into cars.
 
I dont think it matters whether hydrogen can't be stored properly. Hydrogen is the most common substance in the universe. For all you know, cars of the future wont have to carry any fuel at all but just 'suck' the hydrogen as you go. See, nobel prize for me!! Weee!! M-M-M-MONSTER KILL.
 
///M said:
Natural rubber can't compare with synthetic polymers. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Like I said, I'd love to see the countless medical products made from synthetic polymers that save millions of lives being made with something else. Simply wouldn't work. It would be idiotic for man to go back to natural materials, when we came so far with synthetic alternatives that can be altered to suit whatever application is needed.

I'm not worried about supplies, because there are going to be majour advances in materials, as it has always been the case. I'm just peeved at the fact that in this day in age, someone would think we can live without petroleum-derived plastics. especially someone who's into cars.
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So what your saying is. Your peeved at me because I am into cars and belive we can live without petroleum based plastics.

Interesting. Here I thought I was into cars that were built before they went plastic happy.
 
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