Pope Francis...Time "Person of the Year"

The church isn't at scrutiny here, this one guy is. He may be its leader, but there's still a difference. Please learn it.
 
Right, he's the infallible leader. Infallible. Infallible. Why can he not simply make change given that his entire organization believes him to be free of error, especially knowing that the church and many of its members are guilty of many terrible things?
 
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What's the difference between an evangelical christian and an evangelical atheist?

Nothing. They will both to irrational extremes to justify their beliefs.
 
This is a pope for just a couple months. Do you really expect that he can turn around the whole church in one day?

He can do far more good if he takes his time and do it the right way, not the fast way.
 
Yes. HE IS INFALLIBLE. According to his own organization, his word is doctrine. Unless there somehow is some inherent dishonesty within his church that he is then a part of, he can just say things and those things become official church doctrine.
 
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What, you mean the very idea behind his edit:existence spiritual authority?
 
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No, the idea that one man can change the way his subordinates and followers think in just one fucking day.

Give the man some time!
 
Adamar said:
No, the idea that one man can change the way his subordinates and followers think in just one fucking day.

Give the man some time!
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This is my point, according to his religion, what he says as the leader of the Catholic church is what his followers are supposed to then think; it doesn't matter what they already think about whatever moral issues. That is his power as the (infallible) pope. According to their faith, he cannot be wrong. Given that, why would it take more than one day?
 
What does omnipotence have to do with anything? His church says he has the power to change doctrine and that his word is without error, yet he has made no such changes even though it is well within his abilities as the pope to do so. He doesn't have to hold committees and councils and elections and consult advisers if he chooses not to.
 
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:rolleyes: People like you would have gone witch-hunting 200 years ago...
 
Adamar said:
No, the idea that one man can change the way his subordinates and followers think in just one fucking day.

Give the man some time!
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Perhaps they should have given him some time to earn the "person of the year" award?
As you said before, he's only been there for some months, and has so far said a lot, sure, but lets wait till he practices what he preaches.
 
wooflepoof said:
What does omnipotence have to do with anything? His church says he has the power to change doctrine and that his word is without error, yet he has made no such changes even though it is well within his abilities as the pope to do so. He doesn't have to hold committees and councils and elections and consult advisers if he chooses not to.
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This:

wooflepoof said:
Right, he's the infallible leader. Infallible. Infallible. Why can he not simply make change given that his entire organization believes him to be free of error, especially knowing that the church and many of its members are guilty of many terrible things?
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Saying things, even infallible things, doesn't change one of the largest organizations on earth (after Walmart?) in the blink of an eye. For that you need omnipotence.
 
Not exactly what I would call a beginning to anything

Pope Francis urged a group of gynecologists to refuse to perform abortions, one day after admonishing Catholics to stop obsessing about abortions. This is the Pope's pattern: make a media friendly statement to catch attention and admiration, and then reverse that when it comes to policy and doctrine.
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Here is Pope Francis on the pedophile crisis: "The Church hierarchy doesn't need new rules on abuse. It needs to follow long-established secular laws." That has not worked out so well, but there is no call for reform here; just more of the same. No meaningful change in doctrine, and no change in policy.
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Pope Francis oversaw a new law punishing any Vatican whistle-blower with eight years in prison, which includes anyone who leaks information concerning the "fundamental interests" of the Vatican. This is the opposite of transparency for which the Pope was lauded.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/not-anywhere-close-to-per_b_4429185.html

It would be one thing if he were actually doing something, but he's just saying nice things and then actively promoting the status quo. Yeah, screw this guy.

narf said:
This:



Saying things, even infallible things, doesn't change one of the largest organizations on earth (after Walmart?) in the blink of an eye. For that you need omnipotence.
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Changing the people no, but changing the doctrine is something he absolutely CAN do in the blink of an eye but has already made clear that in most cases, he plans not to
 
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mpicco said:
Perhaps they should have given him some time to earn the "person of the year" award?
As you said before, he's only been there for some months, and has so far said a lot, sure, but lets wait till he practices what he preaches.
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Maybe they should have, but that's not up to me. But then again, they gave Obama the Nobel Peace Prize ...

Nobody is perfect.

And maybe everyone should see there awards not always for something they have done, but to pressure them into doing something good.
 
Reminds me of:
"Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry?"
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-Sideshow Bob


We should give Eddie Murphy an Oscar to pressure him into making good movies again

adventures_of_pluto_nash_verdvd.jpg
 
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A little tidbit about the massive brouhaha regarding papal infallibility.

It works at such, the pope is not infallible much less that anything he says is the absolute honest-to-God truth. At most he's stopped saying anything too wrong, because he would lead lots of innocent people astray if he did. It's just that he can invoke papal infallibility if he feels what his declarations truly are infallible. and despite everything, popes do not feel the need to call infallibility in everything and they consider it a quite serious choice, having only been invoked a recorded 7 times since the year 449.

Not that this little bit of info will dissuade woofle from the wanting the church to be completely renovated on a day you understand.
 
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