Porsche 924 '76 ? A winter beater from heaven

Hmm. What should I do with the 924? I started to imagine many different scenarios when Posmo told me about twin webers he had bought. Should I ditch the original and working K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection, swap twin webers, let our euro-Ford specialist port the head and sent the cam for regrinding? It would achieve maybe 140?160 horsepower, and it would be much more characterful engine. On the other hand, I really like that the 924 has old school fuel injection. And keeping it stock would be best for it's value. While 924, especially one with crash history, is never gonna be valuable car, I'm feeling that the prices are starting to creep. Quite many car magazines have featured 924 in the last 12 months or so. And at the moment my car is 100 % stock, even if it's not exactly at the same spec it left the factory.

So, yay for originality? Or more enjoyable car with more power and glorious weber car sound?

Edit: Oh, few pictures of my 924 appeared in "40 years of front-engined Porsches" article on Klassikot-magazine. By pure coincidence our public might have written that article. That means the 924 has now appeared in two magazines under my ownership, the first being Porsche Club Finland magazine. Yay!
 
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I give 100% support for porting the head and using Webers.

I also despise K-Jet, might have a different opinion if it had "real" injection ;)
 
how much would be a second head? a one head ported and other as stock so you can restore k-jet to it when needed/wanted.
 
MXM said:
Why not worry about it when you decide to restore it? Because, let's be honest, it'll be never
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Well thats true but if he wants to sell it and the buyer is originelorava
 
Porting doesn't cause any problems if I want to go back to stock. Sure it will flow better, but K-jet will be force feeding it with too much gasoline anyway. Original cams in good condition are probably quite rare. They usually wear quite a lot.
 
MXM said:
I give 100% support for porting the head and using Webers.

I also despise K-Jet, might have a different opinion if it had "real" injection ;)

Why not worry about it when you decide to restore it? Because, let's be honest, it'll be never :p
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Wise word's MXM!

Port the head, re-grind the cams same place where Zuissi had he's cams grinded. Get Weber's (James has two sets).
If you must have K jet, then go with kugelfischer ITB's.

Few pics to motivate. You can find Finnish 924 weber project here (just incase you've lost the link ;) )

F73FEAD7-4C79-4B9F-B11B-6251FA6CBE28_zps7xn1dxrn.jpg


93508AB5-4147-46A1-8560-17DB59CC3966_zpsrgikjpjd.jpg
 
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samulis said:
If you must have K jet, then go with kugelfischer ITB's.
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K-Jetronic ? Kugelfischer

Kugelfischer is a completely different system that is also rare and expensive. If you think K-Jet is witchcraft the Kugel is on a whole new level of black magic (e.g. fuel maps are "read" from cones/"fuel camshafts").

The K-Jet gets bad rep due to diminishing knowledge on tuning them. Plenty of tuned GTIs with reworked heads and cams used K-Jet. But yeah, unless you're willing to learn the K-Jet just go with the carbs.
 
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My K-Jet works reasonably well, only problem is the fuel mixture slowly creeping richer. I'd go for twin webers mostly for the sound. Anyway, I think I'll decide when I take a better look at the car later in the spring.
 
I'd vote for keeping the car original, but that's not a surprise now is it. :p Refreshing insides of the engines is not a bad bet though, even if I would probably skip that as well, if the engine was running and wouldn't need disassembly for some other reason..
 
Yeah, it runs as well as any VW Group four cylinder has any right to run. Oil consumption is a bit high, but hey it's an Audi engine, so below 1 l / 1000 is fine, right? :lol: I could do a compression check anyway.

I'm all about originality, so if some mods happen they will be reversible. That said, original body color is lost, and it has been somewhat badly crashed at one point of it's life (A-pillar has some welding marks...). I guess it's repaired somewhat well, as you can't feel anything. Just to be sure, I'll let my trusty body expert take some measurements.

So it's a balance between lost originality and desirable fun. I don't know which way to go. I'd love naturally aspirated 924 Carrera GT replica, but sadly my wheel arches are way too perfect for cutting. So Carrera GT style widebody isn't an option :(
 
I'm not usually the kind of guy to give out this kind of advice, but since the car is hardly factory fresh, you should go ahead and modify the engine. Since the injection system isn't exactly working in your favour all the time, you might as well replace it with something that improves the car's usability or fun factor. And when it comes to selling, there are probably the right kind of people who find a Weber modification a definite plus when shopping for an affordable 924 that's not made out of rust.
 
So arguments against originality
- crash history
- wrong color
- wrong gearbox

So go ahead, there is plenty of original 924's in the world and cutting non rusty arches is easier than rusted ones that will need welding after cutting.
It's perfect project car for tuning or what ever, non rusty and all ready beyond of point to return as even painting the car properly will be more than the value of it.

Biggest obstacle I see is the intake manifold, but I guess it could be made.

If you want Carrera GT replica, I've driven it and I love it!

Edit
Yes, I know difference between Kugel and K-jet, I should of used more words to descripe my thoughts, sorry my bad. Last Hillborn I saw running was using Megasquirt ;)
 
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Lastsoul said:
Yeah, it runs as well as any VW Group four cylinder has any right to run. Oil consumption is a bit high, but hey it's an Audi engine, so below 1 l / 1000 is fine, right? :lol: I could do a compression check anyway.
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I'd suggest an RVS treatment. If the engine is "evenly worn" and nothing is too much out of spec you should see good results. Doing compression tests before and after would make it more interesting.

Lastsoul said:
I'm all about originality, so if some mods happen they will be reversible. That said, original body color is lost, and it has been somewhat badly crashed at one point of it's life (A-pillar has some welding marks...). I guess it's repaired somewhat well, as you can't feel anything. Just to be sure, I'll let my trusty body expert take some measurements.

So it's a balance between lost originality and desirable fun. I don't know which way to go. I'd love naturally aspirated 924 Carrera GT replica, but sadly my wheel arches are way too perfect for cutting. So Carrera GT style widebody isn't an option :(
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Keep the current look. The original clean shape is so underrated and if the N/A engine isn't tuned give at least same power as regular turbo the GT look would be unjustified, IMO.

I get why the GT look is tempting and why this shell would be a good candidate for it. Do it only if it has an engine that is worthy of the wide arches.
 
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Yeah, I agree that ~160 hp CGT look would be lame. And I'd love to keep everything somewhat reversible. K-Jet is quite compact wizard, so putting that back later on wouldn't be impossible. I'm sure it would never happen, but the thought of that would keep me relaxed.
 
I do agree with most things said here. Carburetors in a 924 would be interesting, I?d love to see & feel the car after the modifications. I would however keep the body as it is, unless you install a turbo and generate 200+ hp. I think around 160hp would be just right for a 924 (remember the 924 S folks? :cool:).

Lastsoul said:
I'd love naturally aspirated 924 Carrera GT replica
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No, no, no... No such thing - a car that looks like a Carrera GT should have a turbo.

public said:
...you might as well replace it with something that improves the car's usability or fun factor.
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Well the carburetors might not improve the usability. There is a reason why they were replaced in all cars after all, but if it manages to improve the fun factor (you did write or after all) then that is a reason good enough.
 
After all discussion I agree with you all that small modifications like weber carbs wouldn't ruin the already questionable value of my 924. So now the only question is, would it be worth it? About 160 hp and glorious sound are lovely things, but it would cost maybe roughly 1000 euros. I would end up with a 924 that is quicker and more fun, but still nowhere near as quick as my MX-5. So I would end up driving the Mazda. And in worst case scenario, I would ruin the long distance comfort of the Porsche too (I'm sure I would leave the intake noise as loud as possible :D). So I would make the 924 better and worse at the same time. Tough decisions....
 
Lastsoul said:
After all discussion I agree with you all that small modifications like weber carbs wouldn't ruin the already questionable value of my 924. So now the only question is, would it be worth it? About 160 hp and glorious sound are lovely things, but it would cost maybe roughly 1000 euros. I would end up with a 924 that is quicker and more fun, but still nowhere near as quick as my MX-5. So I would end up driving the Mazda. And in worst case scenario, I would ruin the long distance comfort of the Porsche too (I'm sure I would leave the intake noise as loud as possible :D). So I would make the 924 better and worse at the same time. Tough decisions....
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How about we do it as cheaply as possible? ;) It would take time to source parts, but since I spend time in circles where this sort of stuff comes up cheaply, I'd be more than happy to pick parts up as they come up for sale. Parts list would include:

?Webers, complete with needed parts, jets. etc. 250-300?
?Inlet manifold (Diy from steel, just the inlet manifold flange, 20-30??
?Camshaft grinding, 120? (Though you need this anyway :p)
?New exhaust manifold, 100? in parts if I make it.
?Head work (48x cans of cheap lager)
?Fuel pump, pressure regulator, hoses, etc. 100? in total (source used if possible)
?Electronic ignition (No idea about the cost but you need it anyways..)


Comes to around 350? for the Webers alone, all the other things are just extra stuff to get added power..

Anyways, a couple of questions:

?How is the rev limiter set up in the 924? Is it fuel controlled or in the the distributor in some way(rotor arm?)?
?Does the 924 engine have the combustion chamber in the cylinder head or in the pistons? This is quite critical as machining the head for higher compression would be very welcome if you decide to get the camshaft reground. Of course the cylinder block can also be machined, but I presume the idea of dismantling the whole engine just to get some added compression is not desirable..

I personally wouldn't do "just the Webers" on the car as they really would be best suited for a modified engine. All the small modifications will add up, and the end result should be an engine with significantly more power, loads of character and of course the sound.


EDIT: Also.. Carrera GT arches might be a bit much, but what about the ones used on the Monte Carlo cars? No idea if they can be sourced cheaply (similar ones for Escorts, Starlets and the like are usually around 100?/set), but I quite like "clubman" -look they give to the car without going with the full box-flare treatment..

tumblr_m4mmstMSA81r3cynwo1_1280.jpg
 
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Damn your pricing beats everything :D

I think revs are limited by the flow characteristics of 924 cylinder head :lol: Anyway, I think it's ignition based, as far as I know the injection only measures airflow and coolant temp. Currently disabled extras include cold start enrichment (fifth injector for 15 seconds after start up) and idle air controller.

Edit: damn those monte carlo arches look great, and I could leave original bodywork untouched.
 
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