Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

[prizrak]

Alltracks and other "offroad styled" wagons make so much more sense than "real" SUVs. Golf Alltrack isn't offroader, but as SUVs, it has enough ground clearance to drive to most places people actually need to go. On the bonus side, lower body means lower center of gravity.

You can be internet warrior by making funny jokes about VW, but the MBQ platform has benefitted from extremely thorough R&D process. Actualy I'm pretty sure that if you add up all the R&D that has benefitted mk7 Golf, no other automobile ever has has such a huge development budget. Sadly I can't prove it, as I lost the SD card containing all secret VW information.

And VW lied to the authorities, no to their customer. Basically they cut corners to reduce cost, which led to unfairly good cars at their price point. I would call that a win from the customers point of view.

Higher sitting body is easier to load stuff/kids into though. For example in the Outback (basically the original "all-road") I'd have to be bent over to strap the kiddos in, which hurts your back quite a bit. In the much taller X once I put them in the seats I can stand straight and buckle them in so even if it takes longer (say the straps are twisted over) it's not as bad. Not to mention stuff like visibility, it's so much easier to get out from stop signs in the X than it was Outback/Mustang.

 

[Perc]

The only reason I'm driving a normal Octavia wagon and not an Octavia Scout is price. They love to jack up prices here, marketing it as a premium option. Much like the Toyota 86 which last time I checked costs as much as a decently equipped 3 series, say a 325d with some options.

Yes yes, I know, we have ridiculous car tax and all that, but it still doesn't explain how the exact same car can be in a totally different stratosphere price wise just because it has some black plastic trim and slightly taller ride height.

 

[Spectre]

Alltracks and other "offroad styled" wagons make so much more sense than "real" SUVs. Golf Alltrack isn't offroader, but as SUVs, it has enough ground clearance to drive to most places people actually need to go.

Ummmmm, about that...

The Alltrack is Volkswagen's attempt to tap into this increasingly popular sub-segment. It is essentially a Golf Sportwagen with all-wheel drive, more rugged styling and an extra 0.8 inch of ground clearance. The latter should help you clear some bigger rocks and snowier driveways, but at 6.3 total inches, falls well short of the greater clearance provided by Subaru and most compact SUVs. Even the ritzier Audi Allroad has notably more.

Given that it's rick who brought this up, let's look at his previous car, a 1998 Honda Accord EX: Ground clearance of.... 6.2 inches.

I seem to recall his Accord getting oh so badly stuck in his parking lot, so much so that he couldn't go to work - and so much so that an extra .1 of an inch wasn't going to have made a difference. This scenario isn't terribly uncommon here.

His Jeep has at least 8.3" of ground clearance and the first thing to hit would be the undersides of the differentials, which can plow through snow just fine. His Jeep has remained quite mobile through a PA winter where his Accord didn't.

So, I have no idea where you think that a car that has but .1 inch more clearance than a common family sedan (and wagon variant) is somehow going to be significantly more mobile than said common sedan/wagon.

For that matter, this visibly has more ground clearance than that stupid VW:

And VW lied to the authorities, no to their customer. Basically they cut corners to reduce cost, which led to unfairly good cars at their price point. I would call that a win from the customers point of view.

Actually, over here they did lie to the customer, repeatedly. That's why there's a lawsuit blizzard around VW right now.

- - - Updated - - -

The only reason I'm driving a normal Octavia wagon and not an Octavia Scout is price. They love to jack up prices here, marketing it as a premium option. Much like the Toyota 86 which last time I checked costs as much as a decently equipped 3 series, say a 325d with some options.

Yes yes, I know, we have ridiculous car tax and all that, but it still doesn't explain how the exact same car can be in a totally different stratosphere price wise just because it has some black plastic trim and slightly taller ride height.

Because the econuts there hate SUVs and anything that looks even vaguely like a Gaia-destroying, mass polluting EEEEEEEVILLLLL SUV?

 

[prizrak]

Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

lol, 6.3" is pretty normal around here, the Outback was 7.3 or so and that was still easily matched by even relatively small NYC snow fall. X is a pretty massive 9.8 but then it's an actual off roader, really looking forward to bash through snow in that

EDIT: I find it funny that europeans like to rag on Americans for driving SUVs instead of wagons. My Outback was nearly 10" longer than the X, you would think that the tiny european cities would be easier with a shorter car that still has comparable interior space since it's taller

 

[thomas]

Well I can see the logic behind the theoretical benefit of a higher sitting non-suv. But only if it actually is sitting any higher ..

 

[Spectre]

lol, 6.3" is pretty normal around here, the Outback was 7.3 or so and that was still easily matched by even relatively small NYC snow fall. X is a pretty massive 9.8 but then it's an actual off roader, really looking forward to bash through snow in that

The nominal value for big RWD American cars, back in the era that thomas' Cadillac is from, was 8". Or put another way, they all basically had 8" ground clearance - and that was dictated by the rear axle's differential.

Even my Jag came from the factory with about 8" clearance. The idiot VW wagon-UV is actually less mobile than a low slung 30 year old Jaguar.

 

[thomas]

The idiot VW wagon-UV is actually less mobile than a low slung 30 year old Jaguar.

In all fairness, that applies to basically every single modern car. A 2016 Charger ranges from 4.6" to 5.4" according to a quick google search to bring up a generic example (that I have ripped a front spoiler off of myself already )

 

[GRtak]

Well I can see the logic behind the theoretical benefit of a higher sitting non-suv. But only if it actually is sitting any higher ..

Like this?

 

[thomas]

I know everybody hates those, I love em

 

[rickhamilton620]

Yeah, about that...



Apparently about nobody else does. There's also the whole "buying a car from a company that will lie to your face, screw you over when there's a problem and then have to be forced to fix the problem by the Federal government while blaming you and the dealers" problem.

You've also probably doomed it, you know.

Apparently it hit dealers in mid September with limited inventory (mainly SE and SEL trim) and active advertising/marketing just starting now. We shall see how it does in October.

Will it outsell the Outback? No, it won't. But honestly if I were in the market for something in this sub class, I'd want something that's NOT a Outback. Why?

- The Outback is pretty popular here.
- It (or any Subaru really) is the stereotypical LGBT car, it's like you're expected to own one at some point. My LGBT coworker has owned several. I'd rather go against the grain.
- The Alltrack's size is compelling, I don't need a near full size wagon.
- Did I mention it's not a Subaru? Yeah, that. :lol: I'd get so much shit from my Subaru obsessed coworkers if i turned up in one - they've done the whole "shoulda got a subaru" fanboyism bit multiple times...

I also like the 08+ XC70 but wouldn't be surprised if buying one used is a flaming money pit of bad decision making.

Are there moral quandaries to buying from a brand who screwed over it's customers? Sure. I get that. But on the other hand, they're more likely now to keep their nose so clean you'll hear the whistle as they breathe.

 

[Spectre]

Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

Rick, did you not notice the part where it will get stuck in your parking lot just like your ex-Accord? Or did you gloss over that in your lust for awful?

I know everybody hates those, I love em

I don't think everyone hates those, at least not now. It now seems it just came out 20 years too soon.

 

[prizrak]

Rick, did you not notice the part where it will get stuck in your parking lot just like your ex-Accord? Or did you gloss over that in your lust for awful?

Also I see no reason to get a VW over a Subaru, while the jury is still out on the FA20 and head gaskets it would still be more reliable not to mention way easier to fix. There is a reason that a brand as tiny as Subaru is selling as well as it does. However given your location I see no point in something like a slightly lifted wagon, your Jeep isn't going to get defeated by a medium sized snow drift. If you wanted something newer there are plenty of SUVs/pickups you could get that will be much easier and cheaper to service (aside from fuel maybe) and will have no problem getting through a PA blizzard.

 

[rickhamilton620]

Rick, did you not notice the part where it will get stuck in your parking lot just like your ex-Accord? Or did you gloss over that in your lust for awful?

Also I see no reason to get a VW over a Subaru, while the jury is still out on the FA20 and head gaskets it would still be more reliable not to mention way easier to fix. There is a reason that a brand as tiny as Subaru is selling as well as it does. However given your location I see no point in something like a slightly lifted wagon, your Jeep isn't going to get defeated by a medium sized snow drift. If you wanted something newer there are plenty of SUVs/pickups you could get that will be much easier and cheaper to service (aside from fuel maybe) and will have no problem getting through a PA blizzard.

Who said that, in this fictional world, I'd get rid of the Jeep?

I like the Alltrack (and fine, I guess the Outback because it's the only mainstream competitor) because it's not a CUV/SUV/Pickup.

Besides, it seems like it would be at least marginally more capable than my Accord which was also on shitty tires before I got a set replaced:

 

[Spectre]

Who said that, in this fictional world, I'd get rid of the Jeep?

I like the Alltrack (and fine, I guess the Outback because it's the only mainstream competitor) because it's not a CUV/SUV/Pickup.

If you're not going to get rid of the Jeep, what the hell's the point of buying the All-gack instead of the regular Sportwagen? It's going to be worse to drive in most ways, it will get worse fuel economy, it's going to be more expensive to maintain...

 

[rickhamilton620]

If you're not going to get rid of the Jeep, what the hell's the point of buying the All-gack instead of the regular Sportwagen? It's going to be worse to drive in most ways, it will get worse fuel economy, it's going to be more expensive to maintain...

Admittedly I like the way it looks + it has a really nice interior color combo:

Plus the added flexibility would be nice if for some reason I couldn't or didn't want to take the Jeep somewhere.

I do like the regular Sportwagen as well and it too is available with 4Motion for 2017. Not that I'd get it in that case.

 

[Spectre]

Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

I remind you of your own posts - first, the one you made containing a picture of the Accord mired up to about its bumper in snow and patently unable to move without doing significant damage to itself - if it were even able to move had it had good tires, which I rather doubt. Second, your post on the JEEP's snow mobility under the same conditions, which basically boiled down to HOLY FUCK THIS THING ISNT STOPPED BY SNOW.

What, exactly, is the point of a 'daily driver' kind of car that you basically can't drive for half the year - and don't have somewhere 'free' to store?

 

[rickhamilton620]

I remind you of your own posts - first, the one you made containing a picture of the Accord mired up to about its bumper in snow and patently unable to move without doing significant damage to itself - if it were even able to move had it had good tires, which I rather doubt. Second, your post on the JEEP's snow mobility under the same conditions, which basically boiled down to HOLY FUCK THIS THING ISNT STOPPED BY SNOW.

:lol: Fair. To which i present you this - I don't expect to be here in this hellscape called a "shared living space" that happens to abut a alley that is plowed last without fail by next winter, ideally before this winter (if I am, send one of your messengers to take care of me).

 

[Spectre]

Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

Everywhere you want to go in PA will suddenly be plowed all the time in winter? You won't be caught out by a sudden snowfall while at work, which as you know is common enough there?

What the All-gack is is capability theatre and you've fallen for it. It looks to be a lot more butch and capable than the regular Sportwagen, enough to sucker in people (unfortunately like you) and get them to pay a lot more money for a Sportwagen wearing paintball gear and platform heels - unfortunately, you don't get anything like that amount of money worth of added capability out of it. Mostly because for all practical purposes it doesn't actually *have* any real additional capability.

 

[rickhamilton620]

Everywhere you want to go in PA will suddenly be plowed all the time in winter? You won't be caught out by a sudden snowfall while at work, which as you know is common enough there?

What the All-gack is is capability theatre and you've fallen for it. It looks to be a lot more butch and capable than the regular Sportwagen, enough to sucker in people (unfortunately like you) and get them to pay a lot more money for a Sportwagen wearing paintball gear and platform heels - unfortunately, you don't get anything like that amount of money worth of added capability out of it. Mostly because for all practical purposes it doesn't actually *have* any real additional capability.

Fine fine, it's lipstick on a pig. After comparing the ground clearances, you're right. It's not a smart buy, no matter how attractive it is.

I still won't buy a Outback though so fuck it, regular Sportwagen it'll be I guess.

 

[Spectre]

You're forgetting there are other options than those...