Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

Spectre

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What's the cheapest of that lot and who is buying all of these things?

At a guess the Tuareg as due to VW's recent fraudulent activity they're practically having to give them away. :p

As for who's buying all of these: IIRC from the last look I got at the demographics for some of these cars, it's primarily urban and suburban women of higher than average income between 20 and 50 years of age, by a very large margin (probably thrown off a lot by the RX, which has pretty much that demographic for something like 80% of its buyers). Next most numerous is men of similar geographic and economic circumstances of between 30 and 50 years of age.

Edit: What I really want to see is the demographics of the idiots who were dumb enough to buy the current FWD X1.
 
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Vipergts662

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I had this conversation with a friend not long ago, Ford is basically running a bespoke RWD chassis for the Mustang that they pretty much aren't using anywhere else. Why not use it as a platform for a big RWD sedan perhaps made by Lincoln?

Just like Chevy/Holden did with the Zeta platform. 18 vehicles within the GM brand used that platform for over 10 years.
 

prizrak

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I've been wondering that for a long time now. Especially since there's a car company out there that's already done something similar - Nissan. Nissan initially developed the FM platform for the Z33 350Z but used it for the Infiniti G35/V35 Skyline just prior to producing the Z33, so they were already well ahead of Ford in that respect - but Nissan didn't stop there. Then they decided to spread the platform out quite a lot more across their premium brand. Here's a list of FM-platform cars, courtesy of Wikipedia:

Nissan Skyline/infiniti Q50 V37-series
Nissan Skyline/Infiniti G35 V35,V36-series
Nissan Fuga/Infiniti/M35 Infiniti M45/Infiniti Q70 Y50, Y51-series
Nissan 370Z Z34-series
Nissan 350Z Z33-series
Nissan Stagea M35-series
Infiniti FX/Infiniti QX70 SUV
Infiniti EX/Infiniti QX50/Nissan Skyline Crossover SUV
Nissan Elgrand E51-series ( not front-mid, but same platform )

Yes, they put that chassis under sports cars, sports coup?s, sport and luxury sedans plus SUVs. They even made a minivan out of it! Additionally, the R35 Skyline/GT-R is on the PM platform, a further development of the original FM platform. That is a *lot* of cars on one platform.

So what does Ford have on the Mustang platform? Just the Mustang. What do they have in their luxury brand? A bunch of FWD and FWD-biased/based-AWD cars. And despite doing something really stupid by rebranding all their cars Q/QX a few years back and destroying their brand equity, Infiniti is still eating Lincoln's lunch. Nearly every other volume luxury car brand has RWD vehicles and of the non-new ones (like the Genesis brand) only Volvo and Jaguar don't outsell Lincoln. Hell, even ACURA, which isn't a real luxury brand, is eating Lincoln's lunch.

Being Acura Lite isn't working for Lincoln. The new Lincoln Continental, if it's supposed to be a volume seller, isn't selling for shit - it will be doing well to crack 16K sales in the US this year. Lincoln needs RWD cars *bad*.

And there the Mustang platform sits, unused. Along with the last Falcon platform from Ford Australia.

Funnily enough I was very much thinking about the FM platform and wondering why Ford didn't go same route, especially if they took the Coyote out of the Mustang, tuned for more low end torque and less high revving power, coupled with better current Lincoln styling it would sell like hotcakes. Especially if they introduced a smaller 3 series fighter with luxury sport aspirations, just think of the tagline "If you like the performance of a Mustang but prefer a comfortable sedan, Lincoln LS is for you!"

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Then again, just like our community's Ford engineer can't seem to understand why the standard gearshift on the Mustang's M82 manual transmission is garbage and needs to be replaced by a good aftermarket shifter to get an acceptable driving experience :p
Actually I might have wore him down, he had mentioned he was interested in an MGW in a private chat around the time I got my Barton :D

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Eh, the ES is fading - but pretty much the RX has its niche locked up. I say that these aren't cars or real SUVs, though, but more like the old "tall wagon" idea more than anything else; the people buying the modern incarnation of tall wagons care a lot less about driving dynamics than people buying sports cars or luxury cars. (If this were not the case, Cadillac's 90s-2000s FWD coupe/sedan efforts would have been far more popular than they were.) Even with that idea permeating the niche, the X5 and X3 each outsell Lincoln's best seller in the space, the MKC - not by the smallest of margins, either. The rear-drive Merc GLE almost outsells the MKC and MKX combined. The top ten vehicles in this class are divided between 6 front drive or front drive based vehicles and 4 rear drive/rear drive based vehicles. None are Lincolns.
This might also have a lot to do with styling and name recognition. RX is basically the definitive luxury city run about for the soccer mom type with BMW being sort of the same but also with more appeal to men as it has sporty pretensions. MKX/Z on the other hand have basically no name recognition (RX and X# have been around for much longer) and also don't look all that great.
 

Spectre

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Funnily enough I was very much thinking about the FM platform and wondering why Ford didn't go same route, especially if they took the Coyote out of the Mustang, tuned for more low end torque and less high revving power,

Like, say, the already existing Coyote variant in the trucks? :p

coupled with better current Lincoln styling it would sell like hotcakes. Especially if they introduced a smaller 3 series fighter with luxury sport aspirations, just think of the tagline "If you like the performance of a Mustang but prefer a comfortable sedan, Lincoln LS is for you!"

Yeah. A 5-series sized car based on the Mustang for 3-series money that can stomp an M3 would sell well, just like the CTS did.

Since recapitulated retro music is in, I can see the ad campaign for it now - first one would be a simple quarter mile race against the competition with a jump cut to the end (basically CHM Top Gear drag race style) to show the Lincoln crossing first. Background music either throughout or just at the end would be a modernized part of this (and not the parts that could be potentially embarrassing):


Actually I might have wore him down, he had mentioned he was interested in an MGW in a private chat around the time I got my Barton :D

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Has he actually driven yours yet?

This might also have a lot to do with styling and name recognition. RX is basically the definitive luxury city run about for the soccer mom type with BMW being sort of the same but also with more appeal to men as it has sporty pretensions. MKX/Z on the other hand have basically no name recognition (RX and X# have been around for much longer) and also don't look all that great.

I'd agree on much of that, plus the fact that the current "MKwhateverthefuck" naming convention at Lincoln just leaves everyone cold.
 

Spectre

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On the subject of Mustang platform underpinning something with more doors? I've said for years I'd buy a Coyote (or even Ecoboost) powered sedan or wagon. Especially if the wagon was row your own.

So, you'll be going down to trade in the Altima for a Ford Flex today, then? It's a wagon with EcoBoost power.
 

JimCorrigan

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I'd agree on much of that, plus the fact that the current "MKwhateverthefuck" naming convention at Lincoln just leaves everyone cold.
Don't discount the douchebag factor: I'd never want to buy a car if it were endorsed by Matthew McConaughey.
 

Spectre

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Don't discount the douchebag factor: I'd never want to buy a car if it were endorsed by Matthew McConaughey.

Considering that he signed up in 2014 to promote the MKC... I'd say he's not done terribly well with attracting "younger, more progressive buyers." Of course, "younger progressive buyers" being more interested in *not* owning or operating cars for themselves is a point that Ford/Lincoln seems to have completely missed in this case...

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Mr. McConaughey, who starred in a 2011 movie called "The Lincoln Lawyer" that features him as a sleazy attorney who practices his profession out of the backseat of a Lincoln Town Car, says in a video clip that Lincoln approached him with the idea.

Whatever genius at Lincoln that thought this was a good idea needs to be fired.
 

Vipergts662

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Zeta didn't underlie quite so diverse a set of vehicles as Nissan's FM does, though.

Your exactly right but two cars on that platform is double compared to how many badges use the mustang platform. The interesting thing about zeta the stretched wheelbase found on say the SS is considered to be a better handling chassis the one on the Camaro. I wonder how the mustang platform would handle stretched to accommodate four doors.
 
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Vipergts662

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And there the Mustang platform sits, unused. Along with the last Falcon platform from Ford Australia.

Had Ford brought the Falcon over I would have bought one of those in place of the SS, the amount of crap I caught for buying a Chevy was completely ridiculous with most comments being why I didn't buy a Mustang. I didn't buy a Mustang because of the two car seats I have in the back seat unfortunately most people have a hard time understanding that concept.
 

prizrak

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Had Ford brought the Falcon over I would have bought one of those in place of the SS, the amount of crap I caught for buying a Chevy was completely ridiculous with most comments being why I didn't buy a Mustang. I didn't buy a Mustang because of the two car seats I have in the back seat unfortunately most people have a hard time understanding that concept.

Guess what's in the back of my Mustang :p
 

Vipergts662

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Guess what's in the back of my Mustang :p

I know people do it and I could have saved 10k over the SS but I really didn't want to deal with it. There are times we take the SS on three hour road trips they are bad enough when they have ample leg room I can only imagine how miserable it would be when their feet are resting on my shoulders :lol:
 

rickhamilton620

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Mazda pulls a Chevy:

 

Spectre

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"We found idiots with no fucking clue about common cars to the point where they can't tell them apart without badges and then asked them to do a comparison test with the cars." Not the greatest endorsement ever. Especially not the hipster looking guy.

Also, the Chevy ads appear to have been less than truthful. "Real People, Not Actors" seems to have been "We put a bunch of actors in a test group to get the responses we wanted."
http://thenewswheel.com/are-chevrolets-real-people-not-actors-car-commercials-fake/

 

prizrak

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I know people do it and I could have saved 10k over the SS but I really didn't want to deal with it. There are times we take the SS on three hour road trips they are bad enough when they have ample leg room I can only imagine how miserable it would be when their feet are resting on my shoulders :lol:

Well yeah, that's what the Xterra is for the Mustang is really only for short trips and in case shit. I originally didn't go for the SS because of cost and lack of trust in Chevy build quality, had Ford made a 4 door Mustang with a manual it wouldn't even be a question.
 

Vipergts662

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Well yeah, that's what the Xterra is for the Mustang is really only for short trips and in case shit. I originally didn't go for the SS because of cost and lack of trust in Chevy build quality, had Ford made a 4 door Mustang with a manual it wouldn't even be a question.

Build quality has been fine so far the biggest concern most of us have is what the future of parts looks like with Holden shutting down. I know they need to support the car for X # of years but that doesn't mean if you need a windshield in six years you will get it tomorrow it may take a decent amount of time to source one.

We have an Edge for the majority of the long trips but it is nice to take the SS to the beach or to COTA for the races from time to time.

And I agree if there was a four door mustang that would be parked in the garage not the commodore.
 
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