Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

DanRoM

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In short, if you want an EV as a second car for in-town driving and you can live with short range, get a Honda e, not an MX-30. Or something else entirely, as the Honda is ridiculously overpriced.
 

eizbaer

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Or something else entirely, as the Honda is ridiculously overpriced.
As is the MX30... or the Mini SE... or the Smart for that matter :| almost seems like they're fully aware that their sort of clientel doesn't care too much... totally different story with the e-up, but that has a very different target customer, I feel.
 

Redliner

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Portugal in second, huh?
That's a lot of kilometers for such a small-ish country.
 

NecroJoe

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The problem with the MX30 is that Mazda did their hardest to make an EV that's as unappealing as possible...

They decided on a pitifully small battery, because they argued that EVs are second cars to an ICE anyway. They did not argue with the stats shown above - that I would've understood, even if it still meant nobody would buy the damn thing.
They decided to make a weirdly impractical crossover with weird doors and tiny insides - for the same reason. Thus, they resulted in a purely city-focused car that's still huge on the outside (considering the small interior).
They decided to MIMIC THE BLOODY BEHAVIOUR OF AN ICE CAR IN THEIR ACCELERATOR / MOTOR MAPPING in order not to "surprise" people.... argh. Thus, the car feels slow as a turd.

... the list goes on, but I have luckily mostly scrubbed my brain of the stupidity that is the mx30 :|
...and it was also designed to accommodate a hybrid powertrain, which I assume means no "frunk" even for the all-EV version...

After seeing the Mach-E and F-150 Lightning...anything without a frunk offends me.
 

NooDle

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I sat in one in our motorshow a few years ago, interior seemed nice and all, and for a 2018/2019 car the range would have been fine. But now everything is 300km/200 miles+, so it’s a tough sell.

Much like the Honda E, and the eMini I don’t see this doing very well. And yes people don’t actually need the range they think they do, but if there’s a car out there that offers more range at the same cost, why not? A Hyundai Kona EV does everything the MX30 does with more of everything…
 

NecroJoe

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The thing is, even if you only average 70 miles per day over 4 days, that could be 2 days at 20 miles, 2 days at 120 miles. A car with 100 mile range won't do, even if the average falls within the car's range.

Our car can do 88 miles as long as it's not at highway speeds. We might only average 10 miles per day 6 days of the week, but every Tuesday there's a 71 mile drive that sets off the "low range" alarms and lights on the way home.
 
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NooDle

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You’re right, it’s usually not the commute that makes up the big miles (atleast not in Euroland) but whatever people do on weekends. Still, I can’t imagine myself driving somewhere for 300 kms and then IMMEDIATELY going back home again. If I drive that far in one go, I’m there for a couple of hours, giving me the much needed charge time.

I do agree that an eGolf nowadays isn’t a good solution anymore since the battery is just too damn tiny and the charge speed is too slow to do any proper long trips…

But regardless, people will buy ICE because they may need to do a 1000 km trip once every 2 years. People are stupid
 

eizbaer

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The thing is, even if you only average 70 miles per day over 4 days, that could be 2 days at 20 miles, 2 days at 120 miles. A car with 100 mile range won't do, even if the average falls within the car's range.

Our car can do 88 miles as long as it's not at highway speeds. We might only average 10 miles per day 6 days of the week, but every Tuesday there's a 71 mile drive that sets off the "low range" alarms and lights on the way home.
You bring up a very valid point, the average isn't necessarily what should be quoted here (in the end it doesn't matter, because: see quote below). but what should be, and what basically states the same facts, is that some 98% of all drives are less than 50km (not entirely sure of the %, too lazy to look it up, but this is roundabout what it is) - so it's exceptionally rare (in euroland) for people to actually need the range they want.
People are stupid
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this.
 

gaasc

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Or maybe they like ICE cars or they have nowhere to plug yes?
 

NooDle

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Anyone can like any car they want. But don’t tell me ‘an EV doesn’t fit my lifestyle because once a year I may need to charge on the go, and I can’t be bothered to try that’.

But yes ‘I can’t charge at home and/or have no public chargers near my home/at work’ is a valid excuse. But in most of euroland that simply isn’t true anymore (atleast not in Netherlands, Belgium, UK, Deutschland, France and even Spain)
 

gaasc

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There is another interesting thing about the MX30, in which the marketing materials seems to address that issue somewhat, they seem to brag that:

"As an MX-30 owner, you’ll have the opportunity to experience the full family of Mazda vehicles with our MX-30 Elite Access Loaner Program. MX-30 owners can select a courtesy non-EV car up to 10 days a year for the first three years of ownership for a longer-range trip or personal needs."

Which is cool I guess, but it seems to be as response as half-hearted as the rest of the vehicle.

I wonder if they are following with Toyota and the Koreans and some of the Germans and even the range-extender rotary is just something to place there while they figure out their own hydrogen solution. That would be just as dumb, but in a different way.

For me personally that base Leaf would be perfect for all of my goings about town if I could charge it. It would also allow me to keep my ICE vehicles as a hobby. I drove one and found it fantastically boring. A bag of flour with a stereo. It was rather terrifying, especially as I expect this will be more or less the experience for any EV that would be in my price bracket. Turns out a not-insignificant part of why I like cars are the imperfections that an electric powerplant fixes. I expect it functions on the same logic that makes me prefer mechanical watches over smart ones. It also makes me rather worried about my continued interest in cars.
 

NooDle

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Yeah we had a similar program at work : get a courtesy car for holidays or other long trips that may prove tricky with an EV. I think one out of 50 people bothered, the rest didn’t. Interesting though, as it’s Mazda’s way of saying “we know the range is shit, here’s a hire car for long journeys”.

You’re absolutely right about the driving experience though, in my experience everything just works all the time with no hassle. That doesn’t mean it’s boring either, but it is a more relaxed way of driving. You always have instant torque if you need it, no need to mess about with making perfect gearchanges to stay in the power band, just foot down, woosh, speed. Because the lack of sound it made my spirited cornering a bit strange at first since you have no audio to indicate how quick you’re going. But even that is something you’ll get used to
 

CraigB

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I still maintain that an EV for me needs to go 300 miles/480km on a charge and charge in 15 minutes. Those are probably silly requirements as my truck only goes 250 miles on a tank and a fuel stop is about 20 minutes if the family is with me on a road trip (otherwise I'm in and out in 10 minutes).

The idea of a loaner car for longer journeys is interesting though.
 

NooDle

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A model 3 kinda does this already?

The cheaper alternatives are the Kia EV6/Hyundai Ioniq who manage 400+kms/250 miles+ which is close enough for me

Charging speed itself isn’t really a problem as you’re supposed to charge up at home.
 

CraigB

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A model 3 kinda does this already?

The cheaper alternatives are the Kia EV6/Hyundai Ioniq who manage 400+kms/250 miles+ which is close enough for me

Charging speed itself isn’t really a problem as you’re supposed to charge up at home.

I was thinking on a 700+ mile/1100+ km roadtrip. I mean you could try and time charging with meal time. I've never done it, but I have to imagine trying to find a charger in rural American might be challenging.
 

gaasc

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Yours is the literal poster example for FCEV, which I am happy to see is getting more and more traction with manufacturers. It is certainly less efficient than BEV, but that should become less of an issue as we continue to move towards greener energy to manufacture H2.

If the vehicles themselves are beyond boring, at least the development and competition amongst techs makes for some damn interesting developments.
 

eizbaer

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sorry but fcev for cars is just not going to happen. Apart from our things, mainly There’s way too many better uses for h2 (read: better paying) and way too little renewable energy in the foreseeable future. I’ve posted the hydrogen ladder somewhere here before, but I cba repeating it. I’m sick and tired of the h2 bullshit still being debated as a solution to a nonexistent problem…

And no, it’s not getting more and more traction! Every oem that hasn’t shut down their h2 program yet, has much higher budgets in BEV - by ridiculous factors. Look it up.

@CraigB this is just Tesla supercharger sites. a 1000+ km Road Trip really is not an issue…
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Also why is this in the damn random thoughts, this ain’t random enough people! Put it in the Tesla = Moron Thread or something!
 
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