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Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

Please, Brits, enlighten me : Land / Range Rovers : why the love?
Is it because it's "Bri'ish innit" because I simply don't understand it. Land Rovers (especially Defenders) seem like masochism (unless you do the super offroad thing all the time, at which point you are a confirmed masochist because you' purposefully making things difficult because you can).
RR's on the other hand are just for extremely rich people, but I never found them to be particularly good at any thing, and not that much different from other large SUVs (all of which are pretty pointless anyway)

I've sat in many of them and never quite see the appeal or why you should pick these over a BMW, Audi or Merc?

*please don't murder me, I'm genuinely puzzled and want to know*
 
I'm a confirmed masochist when it comes to cars so I'm no help, but I'll try. :p

Well, let's say you're in the UK and need a vehicle that can tow 3500kg and go off road into a farm/building site/whatever, while not immediately looking wrecked by tree scratches on the outside and by mud and shit on the inside, and that isn't a tractor or Japanese pickup that will dissolve 5-10 years after it was made (this is basically confirmed, I mean when was the last time you saw an old Nissan Navara?). The G-class was once a contender but it isn't any more, we don't get big US pickups in Europe, Jeeps aren't that common here and the Wrangler can only tow 2500kg apparently, the Grenadier is still expensive so we're left with Land Rover. In particular the old Defender. We have lots of horse people in the UK.

Aside from actually using them as working vehicles, they're bought as status symbols as the brand is still highly regarded. Defenders are now bought as investments because the value is going up, for some reason folk in the US can't get their hands on UK Defenders quickly enough (I don't know why, you'd have to ask them) once they hit 25 years old.

I wouldn't go out any buy anything new made by Land Rover unless I won a load of money, in which case I would probably go out and buy a Range Rover over anything German. Without looking I couldn't tell you the current top SUV model of any of the big three, but the Range Rover is always the Range Rover. It existed before any of the other European luxury SUVs. I would agree that it doesn't do really anything better than the German equivalents, so I guess people are buying based on design and the badge.

The Discovery was a genuinely smart move to save the company, and in its own time each version has been a great vehicle. I don't rate the design of the latest one but that's just me. The Discovery 3/4 were both very capable and, for Land Rovers, very well made and very reliable. I can completely see why you wouldn't pick one in the last 20 years though, because there are lots of alternatives, but I think a late Discovery 4 could give an equivalent German SUV a run for its money.

So it probably is just because we're Bri'ish and proud of the brand, to whatever extent that is. I couldn't tell you why anyone still buys a Mini though, that's as much of a mystery to me as Land Rover is to you. Been in lots, can't see why they're better than an Astra. It's not British, it's not particularly well designed compared to the competition, etc.
 
Matt2000 said:
IWell, let's say you're in the UK and need a vehicle that can tow 3500kg and go off road into a farm/building site
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Do people actually do this regularly? It’s more of a ‘my car is capable of this’ boasting thing rather than actually doing it.
Also 3500 kg is a LOT. That’s horses or boats, but I’d wager any BMW X5 or Audi Q7 could tow the same thing roughly?
Matt2000 said:
Aside from actually using them as working vehicles, they're bought as status symbols as the brand is still highly regarded.
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This is what I don’t get. Why are they so highly regarded? All I hear from people who owned them are tales of everything that breaks on them and how costly/ time consuming it is to fix them. They were not reliable so where does the good reputation come from? I can understand Brits being forgiving of this because God save the King, pip pip cheerio made in the good old UK but are they willing to look past obvious better choices simply because they’re German or French/Italian/American (what do we label Stellantis as?)

I may be European and weird but badge snobbery is a thing I simply don’t understand. If a product is better/has more quality or value for money I see that as a better deal, even of that means a Skoda over a BMW
 
NooDle said:
Do people actually do this regularly? It’s more of a ‘my car is capable of this’ boasting thing rather than actually doing it.
Also 3500 kg is a LOT. That’s horses or boats, but I’d wager any BMW X5 or Audi Q7 could tow the same thing roughly?
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People actually do, I'm close to a small horse racecourse and they descend in their masses. It's definitely more horses than boats in this area, but they're bloody heavy things, 2700kg gross weight seems about normal. Not long ago I saw a trailer with four horses being towed by a new Defender. There are lots of horse trucks, but they don't handle fields very well so owners will most likely have a 4x4 and trailer too. The current owners of my old V8 Discovery bought it to tow a horsebox.

Then there's the off road crowd where an average play day will as many trailered vehicles as not, the actual competitions consist exclusively of trailered vehicles because they aren't road legal. We're all weird, just in different ways.

X5 and Q7 are equal in towing capcity, as is the Touareg. Surprisingly the XC90 can't tow that much.
NooDle said:
This is what I don’t get. Why are they so highly regarded? All I hear from people who owned them are tales of everything that breaks on them and how costly/ time consuming it is to fix them. They were not reliable so where does the good reputation come from? I can understand Brits being forgiving of this because God save the King, pip pip cheerio made in the good old UK but are they willing to look past obvious better choices simply because they’re German or French/Italian/American (what do we label Stellantis as?)
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Something to remember is the first owners of most Land Rover products have enough money to not care about the reliability. It's us mugs who buy them later that have to deal with that. You could say the same with a Jaguar and Aston Martin, I can't actually put my finger on why they're often considered better than the equivalents. I would take an Audi S7 over a Jag XFR but I would take a Range Rover over a Q7.

Yes, some people would buy British because just it's built here, which only changed with the new Defender. The Ford, Vauxhall, Honda and Nissan devotees also fall into this category over the years, there are probably more. The US, Australia, Germany and maybe Italy have crazy people like that too. :p

NooDle said:
I may be European and weird but badge snobbery is a thing I simply don’t understand. If a product is better/has more quality or value for money I see that as a better deal, even of that means a Skoda over a BMW
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People do it all the time, I mean people still buy Hummers and there's that portion Tesla owners who consider Elon to be the messiah.
 
NooDle said:
Also 3500 kg is a LOT. That’s horses or boats, but I’d wager any BMW X5 or Audi Q7 could tow the same thing roughly?
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Race car trailers, boats, horses, big caravans... there are plenty of reasons to need a tow vehicle that can do 3500kg.

Part of the reason I got a Passat is the 2200kg tow rating. It's higher than most cars in its class and nice to have.
 
Perc said:
Race car trailers, boats, horses, big caravans... there are plenty of reasons to need a tow vehicle that can do 3500kg.

Part of the reason I got a Passat is the 2200kg tow rating. It's higher than most cars in its class and nice to have.
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You tow that often?
 
93Flareside said:
You tow that often?
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Thats the thing : most people I see here (myself included) have towbars and use them very rarely. And when they do it’s nowhere near full capacity. I don’t even know the towing capacity of my car because it’ll never carry more than 2 bikes, and even that is rare (like every other month)

I totally get the nice warm feeling of ‘I could tow that if I wanted to’ but in reality never need to…
 
NooDle said:
Thats the thing : most people I see here (myself included) have towbars and use them very rarely. And when they do it’s nowhere near full capacity. I don’t even know the towing capacity of my car because it’ll never carry more than 2 bikes, and even that is rare (like every other month)

I totally get the nice warm feeling of ‘I could tow that if I wanted to’ but in reality never need to…
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Well, i had that E200 wagon for a year+ and by any metric it was for sure more car than i needed, but I wanted it. I did tow a few times and packed it full for moving north. I personally would get another „too big“ car because i don‘t like renting cars much.
 
93Flareside said:
You tow that often?
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It's definitely a nice to have thing rather than absolute must, but since a car capable of my towing needs/wants was available on the market, why not?

I realize I'm talking to a guy with a convertible, but there are two totally opposite thought processes here. Some people default to buying a coupé because they figure they don't need an estate. I, however, default to buying estates, one after the other, because I have yet to find a need to buy a coupé.
 
Perc said:
It's definitely a nice to have thing rather than absolute must, but since a car capable of my towing needs/wants was available on the market, why not?

I realize I'm talking to a guy with a convertible, but there are two totally opposite thought processes here. Some people default to buying a coupé because they figure they don't need an estate. I, however, default to buying estates, one after the other, because I have yet to find a need to buy a coupé.
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I just by different things for fun. Ive had wagons as you know. I like them for their practicality and not being a truck or SUV. I had my American salary, I would rent an indoor parking space somewhere snd have both a wagon and a convertible. I just don‘t buy cars with towing in mind as i dont tow much or a lot of heavy items. If i had a boat or some trailer for camping, sure.
 
Yeah people often buy things thinking they’ll use them but then end up not using them…. It’s more of a ‘see that 2 tonne boat? I could tow that if I wanted to. I have no intention or need to do that, but…I can.’

It’s also why TONS of people have a towbar because … reasons… and they only use them once a year, if at all…
 
NooDle said:
It’s also why TONS of people have a towbar because … reasons… and they only use them once a year, if at all
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speaking of tow bars: at least in europe i bet like 90% of them are used to bicycle carriers. which leads me to ask: why hasn't anyone come up with a better solution, yet? why does it have to be a tow bar? i keep thinking there's a carrier for the id3 that just slots into two little openings in the bumper, but according to a quick google, I must've imagined that. why doesn't anyone do that kind of thing more?
would be a way for the manufacturer to sell a wildly overpriced bicycle carrier, for a start... cause they could make it all nice and proprietary :p i just learned there's a thing from opel called flexfix, but that's completely integrated and is a "pull out" rather than "stick on" solution... ugh.

speaking of: i saw an absolute madman on the autobahn this past weekend who was actually carrying a tandem on the rear of their bloody VW polo. they turned the front wheel 90° but the thing was still sticking out at least 30cm on both sides of the car :| somehow didn't look all that safe. or legal, come to think of it.
 
I've always thought of those tow bar solutions as the best option, having grown up with awful contraptions that clamp to the boot lid. They're at least difficult to fuck up. :p

Thule even make a tow bar tent, I was checking it out at a show earlier in the year. Sadly too big to work with the Mazda (the packed tent would be taller than the car) even if it could have a tow bar, and I think it's a bit espensive for what it is.
 
Matt2000 said:
I've always thought of those tow bar solutions as the best option, having grown up with awful contraptions that clamp to the boot lid. They're at least difficult to fuck up. :p
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oh yeah, fair enough... somehow i already erased those things from my mind entirely. luckily, you don't really see them anymore, really...
Matt2000 said:
a bit espensive for what it is.
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a bit espensive
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a bit
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3500 quid for a bleedin' TENT. lost their bloody minds. A BIT.

sure, it's a nice tent and all. but it's still a friggin tent. then again, i dont understand camping anyway.
 
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Those trailers are easy to make. I had plans to do so years ago, but just used a small box trailer I already had instead. If I ever planned a trip far off the beaten path, I might have built one more appropriate for going down a rough trail. As it was, my van would go most places I wanted to go and was a good camper on its own. And the Roadmaster would haul the trailer with ease and get me close enough to a river with the canoe or kayak on or in the trailer.
 
It's annoying when a car that started last year and whose electric windows worked back then will no longer start or have working windows. On the bright side, the solution might be simple, like replacing old fuses (even if they're not blown) and cleaning contacts in switch packs. Gotta love old electrics.
 
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