Random Thoughts...[F1 edition]

Because they're assholes? They have Haas and Sauber who already need engines...maybe they can't make more engines quick enough
 
Adamar said:
I understand why mercedes won't supply mclaren, but why is ferrari so defiant?
Click to expand...

If Sauber does go to 2018 engines, as well, that means Ferrari is providing new engines to three teams instead of two so adding a fourth might be a stretch, especially at mid-point to the season when Ferrari may not have the ability to ramp production to support a fourth team.
 
Adamar said:
I understand why mercedes won't supply mclaren, but why is ferrari so defiant?
Click to expand...

because if you look at history, many teams came and went, but one continuing opponent is McLaren
McLaren also sees themselves as THE company that gives ferrari a hard time, and is now even trying to emulate them outside F1

they need eachother, and have a healthy respect for eachother, but they're the biggest opponents in F1, and will never collaborate...
 
Last edited:
On the other hand, what would be a bigger victory than saying "you're in trouble and need US? Well, sure, just beg a little more"

That could backfire though by having McLarens finish ahead of Ferraris using Ferrari power...
 
pic of hulkenberg's seat during a demo run last week...
327c14e6d94d4ec13f4428cbec35b0e6.jpg


:lol:
 
"While F1?s chiefs continue talks about new power unit regulations from 2021, which will likely be for a twin-turbo V6 hybrid without an MGU-H, there remain many fans who would like the sport to go more extreme and bring back V8s or V10s.

But Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff and F1 motorsport managing director Ross Brawn are adamant that improvements to the current engines can please both manufacturers and fans in delivering excitement ? and especially noise ? again.

Wolff said: ?I strongly believe that F1 stands for high technology and innovation, performance. If you try to crawl back in time to the famous 80?s and 90?s, just because you liked it so much, it is the wrong strategy."
Click to expand...
Apparently less cylinders now means more advanced. I guess the logical conclusion is for single cylinder F1 engines then. Jesus, for such accomplished people, they sure are idiots. Of course it's clear Mercedes doesn't want things to change for their own selfish reasons. They've enjoyed their domination and want it to continue.

Personally, I think they're fools for believing that because EV's are becoming cool, see Formula E, that hybrids are also cool. That's not how it works. Toyota has been selling hybrid powered road cars for 20 years. There is nothing new or cutting edge about it. It's not cool and never will be.

If the future is all electric, or even hydrogen fuel cell, then they should pursue that. But if that's not what they want for Formula 1, then they need to figure out what they believe the sport is about. So much talk about cutting costs and bringing in more fans, even universal engine suppliers, and yet this concept is beyond them.

?The discussions we are having are really good in so far as we see what we want to keep from the current regulations.

"There has been scope for various pillars that the new engine needs to have: cost of development needs to be under control, it needs to be high-tech, it needs to be hybrid, power-to-weight ratio needs to be better than it is now, and now we need to look at the quality of sound."
Click to expand...
So... a bunch of contradictory desires then? Great, I'm sure that's going to work out perfectly. Try and give the manufacturers everything their hearts desire, and fail spectacularly, all while ignoring everything the fans are begging for. It really is astonishing that any of these people managed to get to where they are.

Cost of development will increase drastically with anything high tech. Power to weight will suffer drastically with anything hybrid/battery powered. Quality of sound will decrease drastically with anything turbocharged. Isn't this kindergarten level stuff?
 
I think they should keep the MGU-H it's much more interesting then the MGU-K which seems to cause much more problems when it fails since it affects braking.
 
I vote do away with both. It's true, hybrid technology is not innovation, and F1 hasn't been in the cutting edge of technology for a long long while.
Would like to see it become a sport for car lovers, so what if gasoline is becoming obsolete? There are olympic sports using horses yet nobody uses horses as they did 100 years ago.
Petrol power will become obsolete for transportation, and when it does I would have twice the reasons to go see a petrol powered race car going around...
 
mpicco said:
I vote do away with both. It's true, hybrid technology is not innovation, and F1 hasn't been in the cutting edge of technology for a long long while.
Would like to see it become a sport for car lovers, so what if gasoline is becoming obsolete? There are olympic sports using horses yet nobody uses horses as they did 100 years ago.
Petrol power will become obsolete for transportation, and when it does I would have twice the reasons to go see a petrol powered race car going around...
Click to expand...

Except that it isn't true and according to your standards Formula 1 has never been on the cutting edge of technology. Saying hybrid technology isn't innovation is tantamount to saying that any progress on the internal combustion engine since it's initial design isn't innovation. Electric motors and cars aren't a new development either they've been around as long as the internal combustion engine has and the innovation in that field has all been in the development of batteries.
This is what Wolff and those other people are talking about, they are looking to make engines more efficient more powerful and more reliable and people like you just want a big broom broom noise.
 
Four Five Eight said:
Except that it isn't true and according to your standards Formula 1 has never been on the cutting edge of technology. Saying hybrid technology isn't innovation is tantamount to saying that any progress on the internal combustion engine since it's initial design isn't innovation. Electric motors and cars aren't a new development either they've been around as long as the internal combustion engine has and the innovation in that field has all been in the development of batteries.
This is what Wolff and those other people are talking about, they are looking to make engines more efficient more powerful and more reliable and people like you just want a big broom broom noise.
Click to expand...

People like me, most of the fans, most of the drivers...

I said it hasn't been in the cutting edge for a long while. There are things which became innovations in F1 which made it to road cars, but that was a long time ago, stuff like ABS or traction control. Right now series like the WEC and Formula E are pushing the innovation, in hybrid and electric. Certainly a hybrid system that lasts 24 hours on end is much more relevant to road cars than one that fails every two races.
Who gives a toss what's making the cars go fast? As long as they go fast, look and sound badass, and the racing is competitive... that's what I, and I think most people, want to see. At no point during any race has anyone thought "Hmmm they sound like a vacuum cleaner, but at least they're pushing innovation!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: TC
Four Five Eight said:
This is what Wolff and those other people are talking about, they are looking to make engines more efficient more powerful and more reliable and people like you just want a big broom broom noise.
Click to expand...
Without fans, there are no sponsors. Without sponsors, there is no sport. Please the fans or your series dies a slow, painful death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TC
mpicco said:
People like me, most of the fans, most of the drivers...

I said it hasn't been in the cutting edge for a long while. There are things which became innovations in F1 which made it to road cars, but that was a long time ago, stuff like ABS or traction control. Right now series like the WEC and Formula E are pushing the innovation, in hybrid and electric. Certainly a hybrid system that lasts 24 hours on end is much more relevant to road cars than one that fails every two races.
Who gives a toss what's making the cars go fast? As long as they go fast, look and sound badass, and the racing is competitive... that's what I, and I think most people, want to see. At no point during any race has anyone thought "Hmmm they sound like a vacuum cleaner, but at least they're pushing innovation!"
Click to expand...

I, give a toss what makes it go fast and I'm not the only one it adds a layer to the sport and you can choose to pay attention to it or not. Racing is racing not broom, broom and there exist in this world people with many different opinions and making the engines hybrid or not isn't going to be the difference between competitive racing or not. Though it might be the difference between how interested manufacturers are in taking part or not, Formula 1 is to a certain extent about technology and it should have some in it. Also people like you assume it's most of you but it turns out it's not really most people who hold your view as was shown in the survey done not long ago.
Not to mention that I like a good broom broom noise as much as the next person but I want a good broom broom noise not some generic whine that is exactly the same no matter who made the engine. You can say vacuum, vacuum until your blue in the face but they don't sound like vacuums.

Lupin_IV said:
Without fans, there are no sponsors. Without sponsors, there is no sport. Please the fans or your series dies a slow, painful death.
Click to expand...

You think fans only come to Formula 1 for the sound? Do you think Lewis Hamilton fans care about the sound if he's winning? I've known about Formula 1 for a long time you know what got me watching? Senna.
 
Last edited:
Imagine your favorite movie of all time. Now imagine if someone took it and edited out all the music. You still have all the raw audio. All the dialogue and background noise is there, everything of substance is there in regards to the story, just no music.

I would assume that you wouldn't enjoy the movie as much as you did before. It would be an inferior cut of the film.

That's how many of us feel about Formula 1 right now. We still have the raw audio. We can still hear what the cars are doing. We have all the substance of F1.

We just lost the music.
 
TC said:
Imagine your favorite movie of all time. Now imagine if someone took it and edited out all the music. You still have all the raw audio. All the dialogue and background noise is there, everything of substance is there in regards to the story, just no music.

I would assume that you wouldn't enjoy the movie as much as you did before. It would be an inferior cut of the film.

That's how many of us feel about Formula 1 right now. We still have the raw audio. We can still hear what the cars are doing. We have all the substance of F1.

We just lost the music.
Click to expand...

You didn't lose the music, they changed the composer and you don't like his style.
 
Four Five Eight said:
You didn't lose the music, they changed the composer and you don't like his style.
Click to expand...

More like they changed the instruments. They threw out all the violins and cellos, and replaced them with trashcan lids and vuvuzelas.
 
Four Five Eight said:
I, give a toss what makes it go fast and I'm not the only one it adds a layer to the sport and you can choose to pay attention to it or not. Racing is racing not broom, broom and there exist in this world people with many different opinions and making the engines hybrid or not isn't going to be the difference between competitive racing or not. Though it might be the difference between how interested manufacturers are in taking part or not, Formula 1 is to a certain extent about technology and it should have some in it. Also people like you assume it's most of you but it turns out it's not really most people who hold your view as was shown in the survey done not long ago.
Not to mention that I like a good broom broom noise as much as the next person but I want a good broom broom noise not some generic whine that is exactly the same no matter who made the engine. You can say vacuum, vacuum until your blue in the face but they don't sound like vacuums.
Click to expand...

I understand you care about the technology of hybrid engines but as I said before, there's already a series which is making that kind of 'innovation' and in a much bigger and more important scale. If you're into the hybrid stuff you should follow the WEC, not Formula 1. They were late to the party and the party was a dud. It resulted in total domination for 3 years. The switch to hybrid V6s has done absolutely nothing for the sport. If it attracts 1 engineery-type guy who follows the sport for the technicality, I bet it turns away 100 fans in the same period of time.

And they do sound like vacuum cleaners, just that they fitted literally trumpets to the end of the exhaust to mitigate how lame they did sound in '14.

The fact of the matter is, F1 is not putting any new technologies into practice here. It's not even pushing the boundaries of what was doable with those technologies. The latest supercars already offer energy recovery systems on engines which have to last thousands of miles, not just a couple races, even by manufacturers which have absolutely nothing to do with F1.
I very much doubt F1 captivated new audiences because of whats going on under the hood. I am convinced though it did turn some people off and away. I also think that nobody would complain if we had V8-like sounds and no turbos again, much less stop watching because "it lacks innovation".
 
Last edited:
For 1 thing an engine has to last more like 5 races and that's not including 3 practice sessions and a qualifying every weekend. It's not like in the old days when they had a new qualifying engine and a race engine every weekend. Another thing is that people actually did complain about the noise of the V8s in the V8 era, they're no where near as good as the V10s they would say, it was ruined when they introduced rev limiting etc etc.
And I have seen that clip, we're in 2017 now, the engines have developed a long way and they've gotten better at micing them and I still think the 2014 engines sounded reasonably good.
You talk about new technologies, do you even know what these new technologies are? Just in the spark plug area some of the teams are pushing the cutting edge. The MGU-H has made the turbo charger even more efficient then it was before as a technology.
As for WEC I'm not interested, I can't really watch it, the races are too long and I'm not that interested in them outside of LeMans and both Audi and Porsche are leaving to race in Formula E or rather Porsche is leaving to race in Formula E.
Innovation is part of the formula of formula 1... so to speak, it's like Ferrari if Ferrari left Formula 1 I'm sure Formula 1 would still go on as a racing series but would it still be the same? No. What if Mercedes, Renault and Honda all decide to pull out of the sport because you want them to just go back to the old engines wether they be V8 or V10. Why not go the full hog and have a twin turbo V12? I'd go for that but it's not going to happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top