Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

See what I said above.

There is no reason things can't be different if they would simply stop playing lip service to the vets and start taking action. They act all outraged when there is a problem pointed out to them, but then fail to take any action of any consequence.
No argument at all on that but do you think it's likely to? The point I was trying to make is a little different though, here we have a concrete example of government running healthcare from the ground up and doing a shit job of it.* I just see no reason to think that they would do a better job if we were talking about them running it for everyone.

*We have many more examples of how gov't fails at running just about everything, I am surprised this country is doing as well as it is.
 
It's not only a question of government failure - which by the way was elected by the people and is therefore legitimate. If they make mistakes, it's because they were given the opportunity to make them. Learn to live with it.

The problem runs deeper. I discussed this with a collegue the other day and as weird as it might sound, we agreed that to some extent all the symptoms that have been critized on the past few pages here, are typical symptoms of a society with too little to worry about. People with real problems in their lives have better things to do then running around, protesting against stuff or complain about politics. When we criticize our governments or our societies, it's because we're doing well.

Someone said that during extended periods of peace, a society starts to degenerate -- morally and socially -- and falls into decadence. While I find indications that this might be true time and again, I still find it hard to accept, especially when you consider the horrible inversion of that argument, which is that we'd need a healthy war with lots of suffering from time to time, so we can reset and rise again...

Yet I see that many problems people complain about, are being artificially created and blown out of proportion, as the video about those student protests graphically showed. Youngsters without a worry in their lives look for something to worry about. A result of having too few real problems seems to help in generating artificial problems.

I think it's wise to remind ourselves every now and then that compared to humanity's past and history, we live in a paradise. Not a perfect paradise (perfect doesn't exist in nature anyway) but today we live better than any of our ancestors used to live and if we're still not satisfied, it's our personal problem, not a problem of others or the government. It's something many seem to forget very often.

I hope the small excursion into my thoughts wasn't too theoretical ;)
 
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It's not only a question of government failure - which by the way was elected by the people and is therefore legitimate. If they make mistakes, it's because they were given the opportunity to make them. Learn to live with it.
Well... between gerrymandering, cronyism and lobbying it's really only elected by the people on paper.
The problem runs deeper. I discussed this with a collegue the other day and as weird as it might sound, we agreed that to some extent all the symptoms that have been critized on the past few pages here, are typical symptoms of a society with too little to worry about. People with real problems in their lives have better things to do then running around, protesting against stuff or complain about politics. When we criticize our governments or our societies, it's because we're doing well.

Someone said that during extended periods of peace, a society starts to degenerate -- morally and socially -- and falls into decadence. While I find indications that this might be true time and again, I still find it hard to accept, especially when you consider the horrible inversion of that argument, which is that we'd need a healthy war with lots of suffering from time to time, so we can reset and rise again...
Duh....
 
It's not only a question of government failure - which by the way was elected by the people and is therefore legitimate.
Except for Hillary and her army of superdelegates.


The problem runs deeper. I discussed this with a collegue the other day and as weird as it might sound, we agreed that to some extent all the symptoms that have been critized on the past few pages here, are typical symptoms of a society with too little to worry about. People with real problems in their lives have better things to do then running around, protesting against stuff or complain about politics. When we criticize our governments or our societies, it's because we're doing well.

Someone said that during extended periods of peace, a society starts to degenerate -- morally and socially -- and falls into decadence. While I find indications that this might be true time and again, I still find it hard to accept, especially when you consider the horrible inversion of that argument, which is that we'd need a healthy war with lots of suffering from time to time, so we can reset and rise again...

Yet I see that many problems people complain about, are being artificially created and blown out of proportion, as the video about those student protests graphically showed. Youngsters without a worry in their lives look for something to worry about. A result of having too few real problems seems to help in generating artificial problems.
Agreed. In ancient Rome all the people wanted was bread and circus. Today in the US it's cheeseburgers and Keeping Up With The Kardashians. Human nature hasn't changed. As long as we are well fed and have our iPhones, we can't be bothered to study history, research laws, and so on. This is why it's so easy for people like Sanders, Clinton, and Trump (to name a few) to manipulate and to fool the people.


I think it's wise to remind ourselves every now and then that compared to humanity's past and history, we live in a paradise. Not a perfect paradise (perfect doesn't exist in nature anyway) but today we live better than any of our ancestors used to live and if we're still not satisfied, it's our personal problem, not a problem of others or the government. It's something many seem to forget very often.
Welcome to the Republican party :tease: Seriously though, I agree.
 
That's kind of the thing though, it's an illustration of how terrible our government runs things.
No, that's too broad. The VA is what happens when you hamstring an agency, year after year, decade after decade. "The Government" doesn't run the VA. People do. People doing what they can with the resources allotted to them. And as I said earlier, despite all the problems with the VA it still delivers better healthcare outcomes for seniors under it than seniors under private plans. Because despite their pathetic record keeping, chronic understaffing and long wait times, VA patients know they can get care. They don't put off going to the doctor because of cost. Hell if anything they get in right away because they know it might take awhile to get seen. :lol:

If you want a personal example, like your friend complaining of long waits in the UK; my dad would either be dead or hundreds of thousands in debt if it weren't for the VA.

Look, I'm not trying to be a dick, but what we have in this nation is a failure of conservatism. As a movement. People expect that funding for services can be continually cut and yet somehow those services will be magically improved. See LeVel. We've got an entire generation of legislators raised on trickle-down, anti-government bullshit. And what are they trying to do at this very moment in the House? Gut Medicaid. Raise the Medicare age to 67. Cut all the Obamacare subsidies. And so many other things.

They say gov't doesn't work and get elected. Once elected they undermine every gov't function possible. Then when they're up for reelection? "See, I told you gov't doesn't work."

P.P.S. It's pretty complicated, having great care means nothing if you can't afford it on the other hand being able to get care in general isn't helpful if you can't get it promptly.
Absolutely. It's a huge pain in the ass of an issue. Massive chunk of our economy. But there are plenty of examples around the world delivering better healthcare outcomes, often for far less money, than our current system. We've got concrete examples to go off of. There's no reason not to pursue those reforms.

I hope the small excursion into my thoughts wasn't too theoretical ;)
:think: Bringing deep thoughts to our partisan ramblings. I think your friend is, unfortunately, correct. In some respects anyway. Massive wars, even huge natural disasters, certainly get folks priorities in a line.

LeVel said:
This is why it's so easy for people like Sanders, Clinton, and Trump (to name a few) to manipulate and to fool the people.
:lmao: You want to talk about people getting fooled? And yet you're happily advocating the policies that are running states like Wisconsin and Kansas, to name a couple, directly into the shitter. I've got a problem with anyone blindly supporting Clinton or Trump. But I have a feeling you would utterly fail at arguing Sanders is out of step with mainstream America. Or that he's somehow radical. Because he's not.

We've just gotten used to these bullshit Republican-Lite Democrats we've been hearing from for 30 years.
 
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The congress critters all say they are for the troops, but time and time again they have shown that it is not the troops they are for, but the arms companies that make the contributions to help them get reelected. War and injured soldiers are simply needed to keep those donors happy.
I was a McCain supporter early on until he voted against the Post 9/11 GI Bill.

My wife is doing an internship with the VA in some ways they are vastly over funded in others they are vastly under funded. Overall she isn't enjoying the internship mostly because she expected to be working for GW1, GW2 or GWOT vets, instead she is mostly working with losers from the draft days who served a month or two before getting out for whatever reason and now have benefits for the rest of their life
 
@tig
I don't believe in trickle down economics nor do I believe that social programs can never work. I also know that other countries can somehow make it work. What I'm saying is that we
have many examples of government incompetence in this particular country. This is what makes me reluctant.
I also don't view Obamacare as a complete failure that many on the right say it is. In fact it's essentially the same program that M Romney's in MA
 
It's like someone comparing spending a week in jail to being sent to a Nazi concentration camp.
Depends. Could be one of Sheriff Joe's prisons.

So definitely not the pick people on the left would have wanted. A bit of a safe choice. I think Senate republicans will have to decide whether to confirm (or even hold hearings) or risk having Hillary pick someone more liberal. Or worse yet, have Trump nominate his sister (which I think he sort of hinted at)....and if I'm not mistake she is more on the liberal side of things.
If they don't fucking confirm this nominee, they're so steeped in their petty partisan idiocy they shouldn't get to serve on a school board.
 
This happened in a Boston suburb that I've been to countless times.

Illegals held in vicious Framingham rape

Federal immigration officials are requesting detainers on four illegal aliens accused of a heinous attack on a Framingham couple in which the woman was raped and her boyfriend was beaten and threatened with death, the Herald has learned.

Two of the illegals had previously been deported to Guatemala, said Immigration and ?Customs Enforcement spokesman Shawn Neudauer.

Elmer Diaz, 19, is charged with rape, assault with a dangerous weapon, kidnapping and threatening to commit a crime. His brother, Ariel Diaz, 24, was charged with unarmed robbery, assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, indecent assault and battery, kidnapping and witness intimidation.

He was deported to Guatemala in May 2014 after convictions for drunken driving and disorderly conduct, said Neudauer.

Another brother, Adan Diaz, 32, and Marlon Josue Jarquin-Felipe, 27, are both charged with indecent assault and battery and kidnapping. All four suspects are from Guatemala. Jarquin-Felipe was deported back to his homeland in April 2014, according to Neudauer.

Neudauer told the Herald yesterday the agency is ?closely monitoring the cases and has placed detainers on all four? illegal immigrants. He added that Ariel Diaz was also arrested this winter on a drunken driving charge. ICE was not notified of that case, he added.

In the Framingham case, the victim?s boyfriend was beaten while his girlfriend was held down on a bed and raped Sunday evening, authorities say.

The still-shaken boyfriend told the Herald yesterday that he and his girlfriend have not yet come to terms with the horrific assault.

?I thought we were going to die. I really did. And I didn?t care if I died as long as I could save her and get her out of there, that?s all I cared about,? said the ?boyfriend, whose name the Herald is withholding.

?I?ve lived (in Framingham) my whole life and I never imagined anything like this could happen just walking down the street,? he said. ?The worst part was I felt like I couldn?t do anything.?

According to authorities, he and his girlfriend were out walking and enjoying an unseasonably warm evening when they were approached by a man carrying beer, police said. The man appeared friendly and offered them a drink, then three more men emerged, police said.

One produced a condom and indicated he wanted the man?s girlfriend. One grabbed his girlfriend by the hood of her sweatshirt, dragging her away, while the biggest of the group kept her boyfriend back, police said.

?They brought her into the building on the corner into the apartment,? police said. ?They pulled a dresser or table across the door of the room so she could not leave ? (They) were trying to climb on her while the others were groping her.?

Her boyfriend managed to force his way into the apartment and was calling 911 when two of the men broke away to handle him, ?police said.

Police said Ariel Diaz head-butted the man several times and then grabbed a large chef?s knife and tried slashing him, but Jarquin-Felipe pushed the knife-wielder back, stopping him from stabbing the man.

Police said that?s when the boyfriend smashed his would-be stabber with a beer bottle. He then advanced on the bed where his girlfriend was pinned and helped her escape.

?After we got out, we got down to the street and she was screaming, ?Police! Police!? and I was like, ?Don?t stop, just keep running,??? he said. Police soon arrived and arrested all four suspects, also finding the boyfriend?s missing cellphone and clothing the woman said the alleged attackers wore in the apartment where two of the suspects live.

All four suspects have pleaded not guilty and were held pending dangerousness hearings, according to court filings.
Securing the border is a crazy thought, right?? BTW, this is precisely why I'm always armed.
 
You still don't get it, do you?

You still don't get that emphasizing that immigrants did this, nurses xenophobia and racism.

Of course it's something bad and of course it's criminal behaviour, no one doubts that. The problem is that every day thousands of men are raping women and it never gets a headline like that, simply because they're not immigrants. And how dare those dark-haired strangers raping our women? If someone rapes our women, it has to be us, right?

Rape is one of the most hushed up crimes in our Western societies and only making a big issue from it when strangers do it, is so incredibly mendacious and hypocritical that I'm missing the words to express my disgust about it.
 
No. You are the one that doesn't get it. I am an immigrant - it's pretty damn obvious (or at least it should be) that I'm neither xenophobic nor racist. This has nothing to do with them being immigrants and everything to do with them being illegal immigrants. Anyone wishing to come to this country should be screened. I can't fathom why it's not obvious that border security is a must.
 
People around here are of the opinion that it will take some terrible tragedy, like a terrorist attack, before border security becomes an important issue. You know, for people who aren't xenophobic racists. Small tragedies like that will simply be apologized away.
 

DanRoM

Well-known member
I am an immigrant - it's pretty damn obvious (or at least it should be) that I'm neither xenophobic nor racist.
Sorry LeVeL, it's pretty damn obvious from the majority of your posts that you are a xenophobic racist. And that you seem to think that being a migrant yourself makes you are immune to that is so sad it's almost funny.
 
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