Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,188
Location
Germany
Car(s)
1979 Opel Kadett | 1972 Ford Country Sedan
The original Death Wish (which I love) was designed as right-wing propaganda. It basically shows how a liberal snowflake learns a hard lesson about how the real world works and thus gets himself a gun.

Of course the new "Death Wish" will have the same political message. As did every great 80s action movie. From "Dirty Harry" to "Commando", Golan Globus made sure that conservatism was front and center in 80s action. That's not the problem.

The real problem is that people today (from both sides) have lost their ability to enjoy works of art/entertainment for what they are, even if they push another political agenda. We don't need left-wingers complaining about "reactionary" action movies. But we don't need conservatives complaining about "liberal Hollywood forcing their agenda down one's throat" either. It's only a movie/TV series/song/album. Get over it. "The Birth of a Nation" is a masterpiece. As is Battleship Potemkin. Enjoy if for what it is and stop being such a pussy about the nakers disagreeing with your views.
 
Last edited:

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
The original Death Wish (which I love) was designed as right-wing propaganda.
Got a source for that? I always thought it was designed to show off what a crime-infested craphole NYC was at the time (which it was).


Of course the new "Death Wish" will have the same political message. As did every great 80s action movie. From "Dirty Harry" to "Commando", Golan Globus made sure that conservatism was front and center in 80s action. That's not the problem.
How do you get any sort of political vibe from Commando? :lol:


The real problem is that people today (from both sides) have lost their ability to enjoy works of art/entertainment for what they are, even if they push another political agenda. We don't need left-wingers complaining about "reactionary" action movies. But we don't need conservatives complaining about "liberal Hollywood forcing their agenda down one's throat" either. It's only a movie/TV series/song/album. Get over it. "The Birth of a Nation" is a masterpiece. As is Battleship Potemkin. Enjoy if for what it is and stop being such a pussy about the nakers disagreeing with your views.
Ever notice how anti-military movies do poorly at the box office but patriotic films sell out?
 

GRtak

Forum Addict
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
20,319
Location
Michigan USA
There is something to that, even though it is not entirely true. There are several anti war/military movies that have done well at the box office. There are also some that did not that have found a following and appreciation after.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
Would a self-made minority individual who grew up in the slums and got into guns be a right-winger to? Guess Biggie was a republican then.
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,188
Location
Germany
Car(s)
1979 Opel Kadett | 1972 Ford Country Sedan
Got a source for that? I always thought it was designed to show off what a crime-infested craphole NYC was at the time (which it was).
Well, I do not have a source but it pretty literally shows how Bronson's character grows from being a liberal pussy into a conservative vigilante hero. That's a strong right-wing story right there.

How do you get any sort of political vibe from Commando? :lol:
Well, apart from the obvious vigilantism, there's also General Kirby clearly looking forward to World War III. Additionally, director Mark L. Lester was also responsible for the proto-reactionary "Class of 1984".

As a bonus, there's Arnie's John Matrix on Rock and Roll:
When I was a boy and Rock and Roll came to East Germany [the] communists said it was subversive? Maybe they were right?
(Disclaimer: I've seen "Commando" maybe a hundred times. I fucking love that movie!)

Ever notice how anti-military movies do poorly at the box office but patriotic films sell out?
That's beside the point. I can enjoy "Apocalypse Now" or "M*A*S*H", anti-war as they may be, as cinematic masterpieces, but I can enjoy pro-war, patriotic movies like "Saving Private Ryan", "The Longest Day" or "Battle of Britain" for their masterpieces they are as well. Anyone who judges films by political content first makes a mistake, that's my whole point.
 

_HighVoltage_

Captain Volvo
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
9,964
Car(s)
1998 Volvo S70 T5M
Got a source for that? I always thought it was designed to show off what a crime-infested craphole NYC was at the time (which it was).

How do you get any sort of political vibe from Commando? :lol:

Ever notice how anti-military movies do poorly at the box office but patriotic films sell out?
It's an interesting topic really. It wasn't political in the partisan sense of the word, but it had a lot to do with American identity politics and masculinity specifically.

Patriotic/war movies do sell out, and it was First Blood that started a new genre in the early 1980s. It was an unexpected hit, and it was followed by Rambo First Blood Part 2, Commando, Predator, Top Gun etc... It was a drastic shift in how men were presented in Hollywood movies compared to movies from the 1970s. Reagan wasn't the cause, instead the two coincided. It wasn't a Republican agenda per se, it was a reaction to a perceived "crisis of masculinity" triggered by the failed Nixon administration and the perception of a weak Carter presidency.

This is an interesting book that discusses the topic in detail: Susan Jeffords - Hard Bordies: Hollywood Masculinity in the Reagan Era

(I too, like Dr. Grip, love those movies, but I am fascinated in the way they depict the American male action hero)
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
I absolutely love Commando, the terrible dialog, the over the top action, the absolutely insane badassery of the main character it's the best
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
Commando was my favorite movie when I was a kid :lol: Idk, I guess I never really considered dumb action flicks to be in any way political. Saying that they are seems as far-fetched as suggesting that Manchester United plays in red so they must be communists (or is it Republicans??). The Deer Hunter, Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket - all anti-war movies but I wouldn't call them political, even if they do give the viewer something to think about.

HV - I'm not sure that the idea of masculinity has changed all that much. Throughout history it has almost always been represented by strength (physical and mental), skills (again, both physical and mental), toughness, etc. The dapper gentlemen of the 30s had fedoras and Thompsons - Rambo had bulging muscles and an M60 - not that different, imo.
 
Last edited:

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
I'm sure that over a third of San Diego residents hate southern California so much that they don't live there. Riiiight...
 

Interrobang

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
8,145
Census data is also not accurate and lag behind quite some years. People who only live in an area (and thus can vote there) only short term (for work, college) are also usually not represented in these numbers, scewing them in the process. Especially in cities with big universities or big universities in their neighboring cities will have a big surplus when it comes to voting registration but these people will never be included in the census data - while a lot of smaller towns where these students come from, will have them in their census data - but they will not turn out to vote there because they don't live there.
So comparing census data and voting registrations will produce some odd results.

Now, I'm not saying that accusations about voter-fraud should not be investigated, they should be ... but it should be done by people who know a bit about data and that you cannot compare apples and oranges.

Now if the Us only had a formal Resident Registration scheme like Germany or other countries, you may have some more solid data to compare numbers - but I guess then the King of England would also know where you live and come to your house to steal all you turnips, rite? And we don't want that to happen, do we? ;) (yeah, just teasing - don't take that seriously)
 
Last edited:

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
Now if the Us only had a formal Resident Registration scheme like Germany or other countries, you may have some more solid data to compare numbers - but I guess then the King of England would also know where you live and come to your house to steal all you turnips, rite? And we don't want that to happen, do we? ;) (yeah, just teasing - don't take that seriously)
We have the DMV for that, you have to report change of address to them. Also it was one of the most annoying things about Russia. To this day you can be stopped and questioned by 5-0 to provide your residence registration and especially in Moscow or St Petersburg if you are registered in a different city they will ask you many questions....
 

Interrobang

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
8,145
No voter IDs are racist and disenfranchise poor and black and transgender voters!
I'm not against voter-id or a general resident registration - but it needs to be done so that it costs nobody any votes or keeps anyone aways from the polls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XreSZvgdZwA
http://www.thedailybeast.com/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters
That sort of stuff is why people (and especially democrats) are against it. If one party is trying to keep the voters of another party away from the polls, then one has to be firmly against these sort of measures. The laws on how people get to vote need to be fair and not be designed to give one party an advantage over the other.
If that's done in this way then I think there is no argument against it.

But hey, I'm the first one to agree with you guys that the Election system in the Us is seriously fucked up. Not only in this way, but in many ways. And neither Hope-and-change Obama nor Making-America-Great-Again Trump have or have had this on their Agenda. They only complain when it's bad for them, they don't when they win. There should be a non-partisan push on these topics ... but there is no such thing.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
Soooo about Charlottesville... Anyone else feel like the world would be a better place is the leftist commies and the far-right white supremacists just killed each other off? It's pretty sad to see soviet flags on one side and swastikas on the other - I thought we got past that already but apparently not.
 

ahpadt

Forum Addict
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
9,858
Location
London
Soooo about Charlottesville... Anyone else feel like the world would be a better place is the leftist commies and the far-right white supremacists just killed each other off? It's pretty sad to see soviet flags on one side and swastikas on the other - I thought we got past that already but apparently not.
It would be a great start to publically (starting at the top) condemn the rifle-carrying, Adolf Hitler supporting nazis.
 
Top