Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
It would be a great start to publically (starting at the top) condemn the rifle-carrying, Adolf Hitler supporting nazis.
I haven't seen a single gun in any pictures from this event so I'm not sure how you arrived at violating constitutional rights.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
Haven't seen that, I stand corrected. They've been publicly condemned, including by the president. I condemn the message and the violence but I still support their first and second amendment rights.
 

GRtak

Forum Addict
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
20,078
Location
Michigan USA
Condemned? That was barely anything. Violence is bad mmm'kay. And when he was directly asked about the alt-right, he walked away.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
We must remember this truth: No matter our color, creed, religion or political party, we are ALL AMERICANS FIRST.
We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!
Oh my, how dare he, right? :rolleyes:
 

JimCorrigan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,105
Location
Pacific Rim
Car(s)
HMCS Velvet Glove; The Last Samurai
Condemned? That was barely anything. Violence is bad mmm'kay. And when he was directly asked about the alt-right, he walked away.
Agreed. If you are going to lambaste Obama for not calling out terrorists attacks as being Islamist extremists, then you need to call out the neo nazis and KKK and the driver of that car for what it is.

I for one, am very glad to see those David Duke tweets. Because now the association (real or perceived) on behalf of the far right to Trump's voter base is cemented. Trump either disavows them directly and specifically with the strongest language possible, or he will forever be known as their enabler.

HOWEVER, on the part of violence, there are also documented images of the antifa members arriving to the still peaceful rally with helmets, masks, armour, clubs, etc. To suggest that the far left are not just as culpable as the far right for the events of yesterday would be completely disingenuous.

As to the driver of the car, if he's found guilty, then almost no punishment will be strong enough for what he did. Let us not talk about what car he was driving, either...
 

TC

aka TomCat
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
11,436
It wouldn't make a difference. He could spend an hour slamming Nazis and they would just say something along the lines of...





It is disgusting how people are standing the grave of that poor young woman who died yesterday to push their political horseshit.



 

JimCorrigan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,105
Location
Pacific Rim
Car(s)
HMCS Velvet Glove; The Last Samurai
It wouldn't make a difference. He could spend an hour slamming Nazis and they would just say something along the lines of...
It would make a difference, but not necessarily with the tougher-than-thou keyboard warriors you're talking about.

For one, it would have shown Trump to be a man if his word (yeah, right). Seriously, though.... I'm about consistency: if you are someone who felt Obama was soft on calling out terrorist attacks as being Muslim extremists, then the same applies in this case. Trump failing to do this from the start was pathetic, just like how the organizer of the rally tried to disavow the violence of that car plowing 19 people by just saying "they did the wrong thing." Pathetic.
 

TC

aka TomCat
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
11,436
It would make a difference, but not necessarily with the tougher-than-thou keyboard warriors you're talking about.

For one, it would have shown Trump to be a man if his word (yeah, right). Seriously, though.... I'm about consistency: if you are someone who felt Obama was soft on calling out terrorist attacks as being Muslim extremists, then the same applies in this case. Trump failing to do this from the start was pathetic, just like how the organizer of the rally tried to disavow the violence of that car plowing 19 people by just saying "they did the wrong thing." Pathetic.
To be fair, this is the first time something like this has happened. And there were tons of conflicting reports about who was driving the car. They knew the car was out of state, but they didn't initially know which state. They found a match in Michigan that belonged to a Bernie Sanders supporter who posted Anti-Trump stuff online. But then better photos of the plate emerged, which showed that it was from Ohio, which belonged to this other guy, who nobody knew anything about. Apparently he didn't have much of a social media life. Then reports were saying the back window of the car was smashed prior to driving into the crowd, leading people to suspect that it may have been a panicked driver who was fleeing from people attacking his car.

The fact is, at the time that Trump and others were releasing statements, we still didn't know who the hell did it. All we did know was that a lot of racist, fascist, hate groups were clashing and fighting and someone drove a car into a crowd of people and someone died. For Trump to condemn bigotry and violence outright, regardless of who does it, is no bad thing. Now that we're getting a clearer picture of who did it, I imagine more statements of condemnation will come out, but people will just brush it off as "back peddling" or posturing or whatever.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
I for one, am very glad to see those David Duke tweets. Because now the association (real or perceived) on behalf of the far right to Trump's voter base is cemented.
The problem with saying things like this is that it portrays every Trump voter as a David Duke supporter. Of course the reality is that a tiny minority of Americans who agree with Duke in any way, shape, or form do not represent the tens of millions who voted for Trump.


WTF does the NRA have to do with someone ramming a car into people?
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
6,021
Location
near Cologne
This is beginning to look too uncomfortably like the later Weimar Republic: a political system brought to its knees by partisan fighting, nationalism and "armed resistance" being touted as the ways to "save the nation" (a.k.a. #MAGA), an incompetent President with serious psychological issues, economic uncertainty and inequality... perhaps it would have been nice to teach Americans more history than they bad, we good, we won.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
partisan fighting
Also known as checks and balances. I sure wouldn't want everyone to always agree in Congress.


nationalism
Patriotism. Very different things.


"armed resistance"
Armed resistance to what? The people with all the gun elected the president they wanted. Germany would've been better off with some armed resistance but you gave up your guns to Hitler.


"save the nation" (a.k.a. #MAGA)
:lol: Now you're really grasping at straws.


an incompetent President with serious psychological issues, economic uncertainty and inequality
You got all that from a fight between extreme fringes that this country's leadership immediately spoke out against? Wow!


perhaps it would have been nice to teach Americans more history than they bad, we good, we won.
There was literally a neo-nazi rally in Dresden this year. Perhaps you should start by researching who the bad guys were and who the good guys were before spouting nonsense.



Anyways, Mike Pence called out "white supremacists, neo-nazis, and the KKK". I imagine you guys will be able to find something racist about that too.

- - - Updated - - -

Ironically, I see a completely different problem from what many of you see. I see the left blindly extrapolating the actions of a few to tens of millions that actually condemned those actions. I see a rise of thought police on the left as they pretend to fight made-up injustices. I see attacks on basic human and constitutional rights, including freedom of speech. I see anti-hate protesters in Boston waving Soviet flags, completely oblivious to the irony. I see cops murdered in revenge for what most often turns out to be justified legal shootings of thugs and criminals, yet the same left decries anyone they disagree with as violent and intolerant. I see the left dividing us based on our race, gender, religion, etc, yet somehow calling it a fight for equality. Sad.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
Only the left is dividing us? Watch that video I posted and tell us that again.
I'm at work so can't watch it right now. I think the left is doing the bulk of the division, yes, although obviously the GOP is full of crap too.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
Only the left is dividing us? Watch that video I posted and tell us that again.
Both sides are a problem, the main difference with utlra left and far right is that it's pretty easy to see that white supremacy or nazism is terrible, it's a lot harder to see what's wrong with the ultra left. Most of the rhetoric from the right is just plain hateful with no real veil on it, left's rhetoric is ostensibly about making things better for everyone.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,265
The biggest difference is that the insanity of the right is on a small scale - it's only a tiny fringe element that clings to white supremacy, Nazism, etc. Meanwhile, the insanity of the left is far more widespread and not confined to an obviously nonsensical minority. On the right, pretty much everyone is speaking out against the white power douches in Charlottesville; on the left, hardly anyone is discussing the Soviet flag-waving masked antifa douches.
 

TC

aka TomCat
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
11,436
There is also the issue with violent rhetoric. I can't be the only who notices lots of talk in recent months about "bashing the fash" or "punch a nazi". Now look at those tweets I posted above, where people are smearing all conservatives and NRA members as nazis. This isn't some underground stuff, that gets universally condemned by all sides, it's quite mainstream, and it's completely ignored by those in the government and media. They're promoting actual violence against anyone who isn't left wing. Is it really a surprise that these neonazi groups are organizing and gathering? Gee, I wonder how that happened.
 

PelicanHazard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
2,421
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Car(s)
'13 Dart 1.4T mtx, '13 FIAT, '03 Ranger XLT Supcab
Of all weeks, this is not the one I should be picking fights. Well, geronimo.

a political system brought to its knees by partisan fighting
Also known as checks and balances. I sure wouldn't want everyone to always agree in Congress.
There's checks and balances, and then there's what's been happening in Congress. It's not 'checks and balances' to have to rewrite Senate rules because of partisan stonewalling, nor is it 'checks and balances' to treat the Supreme Court as a political football. Calling some of the fuckery 'checks and balances' is disingenuous at best.

nationalism
Patriotism. Very different things.
And in this case, it's nationalism. A lot of the groups in Charlottesville weren't even hiding it, they call themselves nationalists or fascists or other such terms, in addition to bandying about nationalist symbols.

"armed resistance" being touted as the ways to "save the nation" (a.k.a. #MAGA)
Armed resistance to what? The people with all the gun elected the president they wanted. Germany would've been better off with some armed resistance but you gave up your guns to Hitler.
:lol: Now you're really grasping at straws.
"Armed resistance" to the left. Like the NRA ad that wanted people to fight the "violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth". Along with using other words like "assassinate" and "Hitler", it was a thinly veiled threat. Add in op-eds that say a new non-metaphorical civil war is about to start, and the call to arms is pretty damn obvious.

To the second point, it would be funny if it weren't so gobsmacking that you question the need for armed resistance and then claim that all the gun owners elected and presumably support the president. Sounds like the veiled threat of oppression with arms against a disarmed populace, so what difference do you see with your own Third Reich example? That it's ok because the left can simply arm itself because 'muh 2nd Amendment'? Do you lack the imagination to see how incredibly close such an action would be to actually start the 2nd civil war? The armed already see a threat from the left, the left arming itself will simply confirm their prejudices and, in the right's heads, give them the ok to start seeing them as targets since "they're obviously arming themselves to take away what we've gained".

an incompetent President with serious psychological issues, economic uncertainty and inequality...
You got all that from a fight between extreme fringes that this country's leadership immediately spoke out against? Wow!
That was evident throughout the campaign. When Trump campaigns on "bringing back coal", trashing NAFTA as stealing jobs, holding up that Carrier deal as an example of what he'd do for the underemployed and unemployed American manufacturing workers, etc etc etc. This is speaking to the US in general, not the Charlottesville violence specifically.

perhaps it would have been nice to teach Americans more history than they bad, we good, we won.
There was literally a neo-nazi rally in Dresden this year. Perhaps you should start by researching who the bad guys were and who the good guys were before spouting nonsense.
Let's: the fascists were the bad guys, the antifascists were the good guys. Saying "Germans vs Americans" is generally true but discounts the Americans who supported the Nazis and the Germans who resisted the Nazis.

Anyways, Mike Pence called out "white supremacists, neo-nazis, and the KKK". I imagine you guys will be able to find something racist about that too.
There will always be those who snip at any statement, in this particular case I imagine with "he's lining himself up for the presidency." Personally I'm glad Pence condemned them uncritically strongly; it's what Trump should have done.

Ironically, I see a completely different problem from what many of you see. I see the left blindly extrapolating the actions of a few to tens of millions that actually condemned those actions. I see a rise of thought police on the left as they pretend to fight made-up injustices. I see attacks on basic human and constitutional rights, including freedom of speech. I see anti-hate protesters in Boston waving Soviet flags, completely oblivious to the irony. I see cops murdered in revenge for what most often turns out to be justified legal shootings of thugs and criminals, yet the same left decries anyone they disagree with as violent and intolerant. I see the left dividing us based on our race, gender, religion, etc, yet somehow calling it a fight for equality. Sad.
And I see a sucker:


The biggest difference is that the insanity of the right is on a small scale - it's only a tiny fringe element that clings to white supremacy, Nazism, etc. Meanwhile, the insanity of the left is far more widespread and not confined to an obviously nonsensical minority. On the right, pretty much everyone is speaking out against the white power douches in Charlottesville; on the left, hardly anyone is discussing the Soviet flag-waving masked antifa douches.
The Soviet flag wavers weren't the ones who killed a person in Charlottesville. The infighting doesn't quite garner the same attention.

What do I mean by that? Imagine a hypothetical where Trump goes for a naked power grab and tries to repeal the 2nd amendment so no one can rise up against him. Then you'd "team up" with the Soviet flag wavers and Antifa. You wouldn't really "team up" with them, you wouldn't support them; it's more of an "enemy of my enemy can be useful in the short term for a better chance at defeating the common enemy but we're not friends". You'd still think them dumb and say so, but the infighting that causes would be drowned out almost entirely by the arguably more important news of the situation.
 
Top