Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

There's checks and balances, and then there's what's been happening in Congress. It's not 'checks and balances' to have to rewrite Senate rules because of partisan stonewalling, nor is it 'checks and balances' to treat the Supreme Court as a political football. Calling some of the fuckery 'checks and balances' is disingenuous at best.
It would help if we had term limits. As far as SCOTUS is concerned, I think the politicization of it is a recent phenomenon that took off under Obama but I could be wrong; in any case, it's not the right-leaning Justices that are getting all political when they're supposed to be impartial.


And in this case, it's nationalism. A lot of the groups in Charlottesville weren't even hiding it, they call themselves nationalists or fascists or other such terms, in addition to bandying about nationalist symbols.
calvin was talking about the Weimar Republic - do you think he was referring to Charlottesville or overall to the US? Methings it was the latter (that would make more sense). Yes, what happened in VA was nationalism (among other things) but overall we're nowhere near it. This is a huge issue recently - make outlandish statements that promote generalities about all Trump voters, all Republicans, the whole country, etc, and then pretend like you were talking about a specific person/incident/etc; the left thrives on this.


"Armed resistance" to the left. Like the NRA ad that wanted people to fight the "violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth". Along with using other words like "assassinate" and "Hitler", it was a thinly veiled threat.
Ironic that you find truth to be threatening. Seriously, drop the act - the NRA is as non-violent as it gets; how many homicides have been committed by NRA members??


Add in op-eds that say a new non-metaphorical civil war is about to start, and the call to arms is pretty damn obvious.
The left has called for civil war, secession, presidential assassination, murdering cops, etc - they are the side pushing violence. I don't understand how you can brush off such "hate speech".


To the second point, it would be funny if it weren't so gobsmacking that you question the need for armed resistance and then claim that all the gun owners elected and presumably support the president.
I was just surprised at the implication that a violent revolt of some sort is coming, when the side that would be leading it is the one that hates guns.


Sounds like the veiled threat of oppression with arms against a disarmed populace...
You're reading way, way too much into it. Take some deep breaths.


That it's ok because the left can simply arm itself because 'muh 2nd Amendment'? Do you lack the imagination to see how incredibly close such an action would be to actually start the 2nd civil war? The armed already see a threat from the left, the left arming itself will simply confirm their prejudices and, in the right's heads, give them the ok to start seeing them as targets since "they're obviously arming themselves to take away what we've gained".
Except the left IS arming itself and no one on the right gives a damn. It's pathetic that this is what it takes for the left to finally appreciate their rights.


That was evident throughout the campaign. When Trump campaigns on "bringing back coal", trashing NAFTA as stealing jobs, holding up that Carrier deal as an example of what he'd do for the underemployed and unemployed American manufacturing workers, etc etc etc. This is speaking to the US in general, not the Charlottesville violence specifically.
Ah, so topics completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Gotcha.


Let's: the fascists were the bad guys, the antifascists were the good guys. Saying "Germans vs Americans" is generally true but discounts the Americans who supported the Nazis and the Germans who resisted the Nazis.
By and large the Americans were the good guys and the Germans were the bad guys. I'm sure there were some Nazis who secretly disagree with Hitler - are you going to suggest that Nazis weren't the bad guys? Also, the antifascists were only the good guys on the Western front - out East they were equally bad (and left-leaning).


And I see a sucker:
Good talk. That's really insightful commentary, thanks for this detailed, well thought-out response.


The Soviet flag wavers weren't the ones who killed a person in Charlottesville. The infighting doesn't quite garner the same attention.

What do I mean by that? Imagine a hypothetical where Trump goes for a naked power grab and tries to repeal the 2nd amendment so no one can rise up against him. Then you'd "team up" with the Soviet flag wavers and Antifa. You wouldn't really "team up" with them, you wouldn't support them; it's more of an "enemy of my enemy can be useful in the short term for a better chance at defeating the common enemy but we're not friends". You'd still think them dumb and say so, but the infighting that causes would be drowned out almost entirely by the arguably more important news of the situation.
Why would I need to team up with Antifa? They can't figure out which bathroom to use, what good would they be fighting for rights? Horrible example.
 
Ironically, I see a completely different problem from what many of you see. I see the left blindly extrapolating the actions of a few to tens of millions that actually condemned those actions. I see a rise of thought police on the left as they pretend to fight made-up injustices. I see attacks on basic human and constitutional rights, including freedom of speech. I see anti-hate protesters in Boston waving Soviet flags, completely oblivious to the irony. I see cops murdered in revenge for what most often turns out to be justified legal shootings of thugs and criminals, yet the same left decries anyone they disagree with as violent and intolerant. I see the left dividing us based on our race, gender, religion, etc, yet somehow calling it a fight for equality. Sad.

Do you see the irony in your own statement? What is your sample size for making these claims about "the left" - are you using tens of millions of stories or just a few dozen that you have chosen as representative of "the left?"
 
Do you see the irony in your own statement? What is your sample size for making these claims about "the left" - are you using tens of millions of stories or just a few dozen that you have chosen as representative of "the left?"
Pretty much all of the left-leaning MSM outlets are making a connection between Trump and white supremacists, implying that most of the people that voted for him harbor some sort of neo-nazi views.
 
Do you see the irony in your own statement? What is your sample size for making these claims about "the left" - are you using tens of millions of stories or just a few dozen that you have chosen as representative of "the left?"

Firstly, identity politics are bad no matter your political affiliation, now that that's out of the way - remember that being on the left is not the same as being a liberal. Classic liberals are closer to libertarians in their ideas, leftist on the other hand believe in governmental interference in day-to-day lives of citizens. To that end Lev's point stands, the basic idea behind being left leaning is to extrapolate actions of few to a few tens of millions and regulating those actions.
 
To everyone who thinks it's all the fault of the right (most people here), or the fault of the left (ahem, Level), you need to listen to this in its entirety. This sums it all up logically, and poignantly.

[video=youtube;67zCG-KPWfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67zCG-KPWfQ[/video]
 
Pretty much all of the left-leaning MSM outlets are making a connection between Trump and white supremacists, implying that most of the people that voted for him harbor some sort of neo-nazi views.

But are you conflating "left-leaning MSM outlets" with "the left?" See my response to prizrak below.

Firstly, identity politics are bad no matter your political affiliation, now that that's out of the way - remember that being on the left is not the same as being a liberal. Classic liberals are closer to libertarians in their ideas, leftist on the other hand believe in governmental interference in day-to-day lives of citizens. To that end Lev's point stands, the basic idea behind being left leaning is to extrapolate actions of few to a few tens of millions and regulating those actions.

I do not disagree with the distinction you are drawing between liberal and leftist, but it is not pertinent here because Lev's argument didn't invoke it, and my question didn't rely on it either. I'm pushing back against his argument that it is a tendency of the left to extrapolate actions of a few to tens of millions, because his observations are proof of the opposite - that the right makes the same extrapolations. Basically, anytime anyone says "the left" or "the right" they are extrapolating, and I'm pointing out that it is hypocritical to claim that only one side does it.
 
Most people here are fairly rational and realize that there are assholes in every crowd.
Except that, in general terms, there are way more of them on one side. You keep talking about the violent gun-toting right, yet it was a Bernie supporter that SHOT A UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN while specifically targeting Republicans. It was antifa that burned cars during the inauguration (I don't remember a single democratic politician calling them out). The guy that shot police officers in Dallas was a black nationalist - I don't remember Obama calling out the Black Panthers or Nation of Islam, both of which the shooter had ties to, yet you weren't nearly as upset as right now when calling on Trump to single out white nationalist groups.

Basically you have the violent left that's fanning the flames of division and violently acting out, while simultaneously painting everyone on the right as white nationalists, including in this thread. Knock it off.
 
I tend to have problems with this continuous division between left and right.

That is some mindset we should be getting out of our minds. Idiots are idiots, violent people are violent. As stupidly simplistic as this is, it's quite true.

The left/right mindset is dangerous because our brains work by aggregation and comparison, so when you have only two sides, you automatically tend to group people in just two big boxes, and because saying that one is bad means saying that the other is better, or even good, while negating any differences in merit (they are all the same) is most of the time an act of refusal, of nihilistic lack of interest, of non-thinking.

Both tendencies are wrong, and will bring disaster.

We should always remember that each person is a single, even when they act like a mob, and they should be judged according to what they themselves think or say. If someone drives a car into someone else, that's a criminal; if someone uses violence, that's a violent person. If, in addition, they think black people are inferior, they may be white supremacist right-winged nuts, if they think you should be jailed for refusing to bow your knee in front of their outlandish and out-of-reality vision of society, they may be deranged leftists.

But if they are just violent, they are just violent, we should refrain from the crave to gratuitously attach a label on them, just because otherwise the world is too complicated.

Left and right are outdated concept, and it shows. The world is not divided into left and right, it is divided into people thinking straight vs. nutjobs (more or less dangerous, according to their level of madness), and if we don't want the nutjobs to take power (like it's happening right now), we should try to listen to the others.
 
While I mostly agree with Sir Edward I would also say that leftist thinking tends to be geared more towards group think, simply because one of the defining features of left wing politics is placing society above individual. Right wing tends to be more about individualism, of course these are all very broad strokes.

I will say this, current left wing nuts certainly seem both nuttier and more vocal than right wingers.
 
current left wing nuts certainly seem both nuttier and more vocal than right wingers.
My initial reaction to this was "WAT?", because to me, it seems to be the exact opposite. So I think this is a matter of perception and your own political position: Of course the left-wingers seem, as you put it, "nuttier" to you than the right-wingers, because your own opinion leans to the right. For me, it's the other way around (I'm European, so as far as the US political spectrum goes, I'm nearly falling off it on the left side).
And the "more vocal" might stem from the coverage in the media and what media you consume. Partisan media tend to juice up the opposition, because scary news sells well.
 
Except that, in general terms, there are way more of them on one side.

History disagrees.

You keep talking about the violent gun-toting right,

Me? Where?

yet it was a Bernie supporter that SHOT A UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN while specifically targeting Republicans.

I know this. He is will be going to prison for a really long time too, right where he belongs.


It was antifa that burned cars during the inauguration (I don't remember a single democratic politician calling them out).


Did any Republicans? I don't get why you want me to answer for Antifa, I don't support their extremist views or acts.


The guy that shot police officers in Dallas was a black nationalist - I don't remember Obama calling out the Black Panthers or Nation of Islam, both of which the shooter had ties to, yet you weren't nearly as upset as right now when calling on Trump to single out white nationalist groups.


Was Obama asked directly about those extremist groups right after the events? Trump was, turned and walked away. Duke has claimed Trump as the savior of the White Nationalists and Trump still hasn't distanced himself from them.

The last 15 seconds:

Basically you have the violent left that's fanning the flames of division and violently acting out, while simultaneously painting everyone on the right as white nationalists, including in this thread. Knock it off.


I am only pointing at the assholes that are painting themselves as White Nationalists. And in this particular case, those same White Nationalists have been there protesting the upcoming removal of a statue, all but challenging any group to come oppose them.
 
Last edited:
My initial reaction to this was "WAT?", because to me, it seems to be the exact opposite. So I think this is a matter of perception and your own political position: Of course the left-wingers seem, as you put it, "nuttier" to you than the right-wingers, because your own opinion leans to the right. For me, it's the other way around (I'm European, so as far as the US political spectrum goes, I'm nearly falling off it on the left side).
And the "more vocal" might stem from the coverage in the media and what media you consume. Partisan media tend to juice up the opposition, because scary news sells well.
Both sides are nutty, however when it comes to the extreme right (aka neo-nazis) for the most part no one likes them aside from them. Their ideas are completely indefensible and easy to see through, the leftist and here I mean people like antifa or BLM are a lot more dangerous because they ostensibly want only good things.

I will let Steve Crowder explain it better.
[video=youtube;1-9--B4Jhts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9--B4Jhts[/video]

If you remember my political compass I am actually farther to the left than right, and my media diet includes Bill Maher, Jon Oliver, Steve Crowder and Ben Shapiro so I have a pretty good mix of both sides. I am first and foremost an individualist and I believe that what's good for each individual is good for society at large.

- - - Updated - - -

And in this particular case, those same White Nationalists have been there protesting the upcoming removal of a statue, all but challenging any group to come oppose them.
Specifically on this, while I don't agree with the group I do understand why they wouldn't want to remove the statue and I also don't believe it ever should be removed, white washing history has never helped anyone.
 
White washing history is what a lot of those that wave the Confederate Battle Flag do. To them the war was not fought over slavery, and those statues are Great American hereos.
 
White washing history is what a lot of those that wave the Confederate Battle Flag do. To them the war was not fought over slavery, and those statues are Great American hereos.

That makes it no more right than people trying to remove statues of civil war generals no matter what side they were on.
 
White washing history is what a lot of those that wave the Confederate Battle Flag do. To them the war was not fought over slavery, and those statues are Great American hereos.
We've been over this. There's more to the war than slavely. In any event, they do have a right to protest a proposal of their government to remove the statue, whether you agree or not.

- - - Updated - - -

]I am only pointing at the assholes that are painting themselves as White Nationalists.
That's exactly the problem I'm talking about. Why aren't you also pointing at the assholes in antifa and BLM? What about the assholes waving Soviet flags? Assholes threatening the president? Your bias has you fixated on the right-wing assholes.
 
Yes, they do have a right to protest.


Where was your righteous indignation when Obama was getting threatened?


If I had time to beat the drum every time I seen something wrong in this country, you would start to call me a Social Justice Warrior. That seems to be what you are currently doing.

Once again, I do not support Antifa's views, or actions.

I also don't have to apologize for them, or try to explain what they are doing, or have done.
 
Ugh.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/08/loyalty-oath-moment-dodge/#more-1584942

disavow.png
 
Last edited:
@pronounwarrior.
...
Says it all doesn't it?
 
Top