Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

[TC]

The reason our courts operate on the presumption of innocence is not arbitrary. They operate that way because it's the only decent, respectable, honorable, principled, moral, ethical way to operate.

The sad reality is that if Kavanaugh does not get confirmed, he will be seen as guilty of these crimes and his life will be destroyed. The idea that this is simply some job application, some promotion that he is shooting for, is highly disingenuous.

Every single witness named in every single one of these accusations has denied knowledge of any wrong doing. We don't know if a crime even took place, let alone if Kavanaugh was the person who committed it.

Brett Kavanaugh was all but guaranteed to be confirmed, so if he does not, it will be a decision based on faith based beliefs, rather than facts and evidence.

 

[LeVeL]

Quite frankly, I don't care if a high-school college kid drinks beer, parties, and chases skirt so even if these allegations are true, I don't really see a problem here. For clarity, let's look at the allegations:

1) Kavanaugh was in bed with Ford and tried to remove her clothes. The only witness to this, Mark Judge, who was named by Ford herself, has now written two letters to the Senate denying this allegation. There are no other witnesses. The accuser doesn't remember key details, such as the time or location of this party. No one else seems to remember this party ever happening. For almost 40 years she never told anyone about it, except for a marriage counselor where she didn't name Kavanaugh and provided conflicting details to what she's saying now. There is zero evidence here or even anything that would remotely pass for evidence or proof. Even if it did happen as described, what's the accusation? That a high-school boy tried to have sex with a high-school girl, she pushed him off, and no sex occurred? The horror... the horror...

2) Kavanaugh exposed himself at a party in college. Again, no witnesses at all. I've seen plenty of drunk college kids whip out their junk and no one ever died from it. A complete non-story.

3) Kavanaugh was present when boys ran the train on girls. The accuser never suggested that Kavanaugh actually had sex with anyone or participated in any way. There's not even an allegation of wrong doing here on his part.

Again, there is absolutely no evidence of any wrong doing by Kavanaugh. There's not even a shred of proof. Slimy Dem senators are just trying to delay and derail, showing their true colors as total lowlife scumbags. You can grasp at straws all you want but there aren't even any straws - there's nothing to these silly stories. You believe Ford only because you don't want Kavanaugh to be on the Court - that's it.

 

[GRtak]

This was not a case of chasing skirts, this was a sexual assault. I chased skirts as you put it, but I have not been named as somebody that committed such an assault.

An investigation could clear him, so why not give the process time to go through one?

It really is already a done deal though. The Republicans are intent on ramming this guy through, and I don't understand why. Even if he was turned down, there is time to get another candidate through the process before the new year.

 

[LeVeL]

This was not a case of chasing skirts, this was a sexual assault. I chased skirts as you put it, but I have not been named as somebody that committed such an assault.

An investigation could clear him, so why not give the process time to go through one?

GRtak has sexually assaulted me. There, you've been accused, there's as much evidence as there is against Kavanaugh, and I demand an investigation! In this day and age this is all it takes to smear someone. So uhh yeah, man, you shouldn't have grabbed my junk when we were... somewhere... at some point... I don't remember the details.

There's nothing to investigate. It's literally his word against hers. The only witness, who SHE named, denies this ever happened. She has no idea when or where this happened. The FBI has investigated him half a dozen times already. What else do you want them to do? Go door to door across Maryland asking if there was ever a party at each house in the early 80s? Serious question, whow would this ever get investigated?

 

[prizrak]

This was not a case of chasing skirts, this was a sexual assault. I chased skirts as you put it, but I have not been named as somebody that committed such an assault.

An investigation could clear him, so why not give the process time to go through one?

It really is already a done deal though. The Republicans are intent on ramming this guy through, and I don't understand why. Even if he was turned down, there is time to get another candidate through the process before the new year.

Behavior as described was absolutely sexual assault, and if true is definitely something that should be considered. HOWEVER here is where the issue is, this is something that simply cannot be proven either way. Unless FBI is hiding a DMC12 somewhere there is no way they can even attempt to investigate this.

 

[GRtak]

this just in

Jeff Flake was not comfortable with the vote moving to the Senate floor, so there will be a call for an investigation by the FBI.

 

[LeVeL]

this just in

Jeff Flake was not comfortable with the vote moving to the Senate floor, so there will be a call for an investigation by the FBI.

Wrong. Flake wanted the SENATE vote delayed, not the committee vote; i.e. he DID support moving the vote to the Senate floor. In fact, the committee has voted to confirm Kavanaugh and at this point it looks like the Senate will vote tomorrow, unless McConnell decides to grant a week for an investigation (I doubt he will).

 

[GRtak]

As it is now, they won't have the votes to confirm him. So he has forced the issue, and it does not look good for Kavanaugh if the investigation does not happen.

 

[GRtak]

[h=1]Fight over Kavanaugh intensifies amid confusion over limits of FBI sexual assault investigation[/h]

Charles Ludington, a former varsity basketball player and friend of Kavanaugh’s at Yale, told The Washington Post on Sunday that he plans to deliver a statement to the FBI field office in Raleigh on Monday detailing violent drunken behavior by Kavanaugh in college.

Ludington, an associate professor at North Carolina State University, provided a copy of the statement to The Post.

In it, Ludington says in one instance, Kavanaugh initiated a fight that led to the arrest of a mutual friend: “When Brett got drunk, he was often belligerent and aggressive. On one of the last occasions I purposely socialized with Brett, I witnessed him respond to a semi-hostile remark, not by defusing the situation, but by throwing his beer in the man’s face and starting a fight that ended with one of our mutual friends in jail.”

Ludington says he was deeply troubled by Kavanaugh appearing to blatantly mischaracterize his drinking in Senate testimony.

“I do not believe that the heavy drinking or even loutish behavior of an 18 or even 21 year old should condemn a person for the rest of his life,” Ludington wrote. “However ... if he lied about his past actions on national television, and more especially while speaking under oath in front of the United States Senate, I believe those lies should have consequences.”

 

[LeVeL]

I love how everyone is suddenly a nun and has never gotten drunk, has never been in a fight, has never hit on girls, has never gone to a party... I'm about as concerned about Kavanaugh (allegedly) doing those things as I am about his booger picking habits. Leave it to the Dems to destroy a man's life over fake outrage for political gain.

Senator Snowflake is another scumbag. He publicly said that there's no way he would've ever gone along with the FBI investigation if he had been up for re-election. Feinstein is even worse, she threw her own witness under the bus when she denied leaking her info to the press - literally the only other person who could've done that was Ford herself. Meanwhile Rachel Mitchell (the prosecutor who questioned Ford) said that there's no way she'd press charges after that testimony. This whole thing is a sad joke.

 

[GRtak]

Assault is not a harmless flirting like you are trying to make it out to be. And again, this is not about pressing charges, this is about whether or not Kavanaugh belongs on the Supreme Court. I am not upset that Kavanaugh ever got drunk, but he appears to have lied about it under oath.

I am even more worried about a candidate for SCOTUS that one day says that the Justices should not be partisan, yet goes off on a partisan rant the next.

 

[Interrobang]

I love how everyone is suddenly a nun and has never gotten drunk, has never been in a fight, [...], has never gone to a party...[...]

While I haven't followed this all in every detail like you guys in the Us seem to have - none of these points are the reason this whole thing is going down now. Though I'm also not sure I'd want someone on my country's Supreme Court that used to "get into fights". His drinking also wouldn't be an issue if he'd be able to admit that "maybe I drank a bit much in high school and college, but didn't we all? I don't do it anymore.". Nobody would care then. It's the denial (or dodging these Question- which shows denial IMO) that's the Problem here. Same with his gambling. Nobody would care.

[...]has never hit on girls

Now there's the part that got all the attention now. And I'd say that what Kavanaugh is accused (!) of doing is not "hitting on girls", but what's your stance on that?

I am also not convinced that Kavanaugh was an alcoholic, date rapist that hasn't got his temper under control - but once these accusations are raised, they should be adressed. Because if he was - he should be nowhere near the surpreme court. Yes, that's a job for which the bar should be raised a bit higher. IMHO at least. But looking at the last candidates for the presidential election for the 2 big parties - it's pretty clear the US public doesn't really give a fuck about about stuff like integrity. So this shit-show just perfectly fits. Getting a date rapist onto the surpeme court or a nominee failing because of made up accusations? America - fuck yeah. And if you are wondering - we are laughing about you. What a shitshow.

Blaming the dems and all the outrage about is should come when Kavanaugh is cleared of all this. Then you can righteously climb that high horse and tell them what you think about this. But right now, I think it's time to wait for the investigation to happen and see if there is anything there or not. Blaming the dems comes after that. You've got your timeline all mixed up.

[...] “I do not believe that the heavy drinking or even loutish behavior of an 18 or even 21 year old should condemn a person for the rest of his life,” Ludington wrote. “However ... if he lied about his past actions on national television, and more especially while speaking under oath in front of the United States Senate, I believe those lies should have consequences.”

For me that perfectly sums up the point of time where we are right now. Kavanaugh dug himself a nice big hole in that last hearing. Before that this was only about these allegations - now his whole character is in question - no matter if these allegations are true or not. From what I hear from the media here there would still be enough time for repulicans to get a new candaidate though before the midterms - tactically that should be preferrable to sitting around and praying that the FBI doesn't come back with more negative news for this nominee.

 

[LeVeL]

Assault is not a harmless flirting like you are trying to make it out to be.

What assault? Again, there's absolutely no evidence of this. In fact, the evidence points to there not being any such assault by Kavanaugh.

And again, this is not about pressing charges, this is about whether or not Kavanaugh belongs on the Supreme Court.

Presumption of innocence and due process should still apply.

I am even more worried about a candidate for SCOTUS that one day says that the Justices should not be partisan, yet goes off on a partisan rant the next.

Can you blame him? It's a fact that one party is completely against him and is actively trying to ruin his reputation and life. That's not opinion, that's not subjective, it's fact.

Now there's the part that got all the attention now. And I'd say that what Kavanaugh is accused (!) of doing is not "hitting on girls", but what's your stance on that?

Just look at the information we have and the whole story falls apart.


As far as the drinking and such is concerned, it's pretty subjective. Compared to my wife, I'm an alcoholic (she basically doesn't drink at all) but compared to how I drank in college I'm a saint. This whole idea that an honorable judge with an impeccable record is actually a closet alcoholic who blacks out and rapes women is such a stretch that it's not even amusing.

 

[prizrak]

I love how everyone is suddenly a nun and has never gotten drunk, has never been in a fight, has never hit on girls, has never gone to a party....

I've been drunk 3 times in my life. I haven't gotten into a fight since high school and in those cases I was attacked and not the attacker. I been to a few parties and even hosted one. I've hit on multiple girls and even dated a few. However I have somehow managed to never attempt rape regardless of my mental state and sexual frustration. Usual high school shenanigans is one thing, pinning someone down and holding their mouth closed is not "boys will be boys".

 

[LeVeL]

I've been drunk 3 times in my life. I haven't gotten into a fight since high school and in those cases I was attacked and not the attacker. I been to a few parties and even hosted one. I've hit on multiple girls and even dated a few. However I have somehow managed to never attempt rape regardless of my mental state and sexual frustration. Usual high school shenanigans is one thing, pinning someone down and holding their mouth closed is not "boys will be boys".

Couldn't agree more. Just don't forget that there's zero evidence that Kavanaugh did those last things. In fact, the accuser's own witness denies it. This is about as solid as my previous assertion that GRtak grabbed my ass :lol:

 

[LeVeL]

Also, what kind of Russian has only been drunk 3 times??

 

[GRtak]

What assault? Again, there's absolutely no evidence of this. In fact, the evidence points to there not being any such assault by Kavanaugh.

There is one eye witness that says it is him, and he did it. Should this have been taken care of years ago, yes, in a perfect world, it would have. But this is not a perfect world, and I still believe what Mrs. Ford said on the stand.

Presumption of innocence and due process should still apply.

As was pointed out above, Kavanaugh may have committed perjury in the Senate, and he seemed far less credible through the whole process. So he lost the credibility gap, and that is why this is being investigated further.

Can you blame him? It's a fact that one party is completely against him and is actively trying to ruin his reputation and life. That's not opinion, that's not subjective, it's fact.

If you think that the whole Democratic party is out to get him, then you have drank to much of the kool-aid. While there were a few that were outspoken and made comments about stopping, or opposing him, that is no different than what has been done before. The fact that these allegations came up is directly related to the process, and if nothing is found, the victim will be Mrs. Ford.

Just look at the information we have and the whole story falls apart.

Yeah, Kavanaughs's story about his yearbook falls completely apart. If he had so many special female friends, why weren't they included in that special call out to show how cool they were?

His calendar shows at least one gathering or party where some of those people were to attend.

My Mom knew what a Devil's Triangle was, and if she knows it is not a drinking game, he has perjured himself again.

As far as the drinking and such is concerned, it's pretty subjective. Compared to my wife, I'm an alcoholic (she basically doesn't drink at all) but compared to how I drank in college I'm a saint. This whole idea that an honorable judge with an impeccable record is actually a closet alcoholic who blacks out and rapes women is such a stretch that it's not even amusing.

Again, this is more about credibility than if he ever got drunk.




Oh, one more thing. You guys had a real problem when it was a right wing person getting shut down from speaking or receiving threats about speaking, but none of you raised an eyebrow when Mrs. Ford had to flee her home under threat. You may not believe her, but she has put herself out there in a way you will never understand, and she deserved to be heard without the threats.

 

[LeVeL]

There is one eye witness that says it is him, and he did it. Should this have been taken care of years ago, yes, in a perfect world, it would have. But this is not a perfect world, and I still believe what Mrs. Ford said on the stand.

Who is the witness? And it doesn't matter what any of us believe - what matters is what can be PROVEN.

As was pointed out above, Kavanaugh may have committed perjury in the Senate, and he seemed far less credible through the whole process. So he lost the credibility gap, and that is why this is being investigated further.

No proof of perjury so far either. Good luck trying to prove what a high school kid meant in his yearbook.

If you think that the whole Democratic party is out to get him, then you have drank to much of the kool-aid. While there were a few that were outspoken and made comments about stopping, or opposing him, that is no different than what has been done before. The fact that these allegations came up is directly related to the process, and if nothing is found, the victim will be Mrs. Ford.

Literally every single democratic senator is against Kavanaugh... Oh, and I'm good with this process if Ford can be locked up for perjury if no evidence is found based on her allegations.

Yeah, Kavanaughs's story about his yearbook falls completely apart. If he had so many special female friends, why weren't they included in that special call out to show how cool they were?

His calendar shows at least one gathering or party where some of those people were to attend.

My Mom knew what a Devil's Triangle was, and if she knows it is not a drinking game, he has perjured himself again.

I don't even know what that is. What I do know is that we used to make tons of inappropriate jokes in high school, including about rape, without ever acting on any of them.

Oh, one more thing. You guys had a real problem when it was a right wing person getting shut down from speaking or receiving threats about speaking, but none of you raised an eyebrow when Mrs. Ford had to flee her home under threat. You may not believe her, but she has put herself out there in a way you will never understand, and she deserved to be heard without the threats.

Another accusation as baseless as Ford's. Please point to where I supported threats against Ford or didn't deserve to be heard. I'll wait...

 

[prizrak]

Couldn't agree more. Just don't forget that there's zero evidence that Kavanaugh did those last things. In fact, the accuser's own witness denies it. This is about as solid as my previous assertion that GRtak grabbed my ass :lol:

I'm not saying these allegations have a shred of credibility just saying that it's a bit more than flirting. And the way you were dressed? You are lucky GR ONLY grabbed your ass.

Also, what kind of Russian has only been drunk 3 times??

As per my friend I am both a fail jew (because I don't run a bank or a movie studio) and a fail Russian (because I barely drink)

I don't even know what that is.

How in the hell did you not know that? Musta been from all that drinking

The bottom line in this entire thing is that none of this is possible to prove. I might call the intersection by my house the devil triangle, because it has long ass traffic lights and is a triangle... good luck proving I meant something else.

 

[LeVeL]

The bottom line in this entire thing is that none of this is possible to prove. I might call the intersection by my house the devil triangle, because it has long ass traffic lights and is a triangle... good luck proving I meant something else.

That's exactly my point. I have no idea if Kavanaugh assaulted her - he might've. But it can't be proven one way or the other so we can't ruin him if we can't prove guilt. Honestly, what could the FBI possibly investigate? This is a he said /she said from almost 40 years ago with no evidence of any kind.