Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

Momentum57

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Because they are a lot closer to power. A lot closer.

It's the far left (antifa and Bernie bros) that riots, threatens domestic terrorism, and assaults journalists. The far right (white supremacists) basically had one major outing - Charlottesville - which obviously ended very tragically. But like I said, the white supremacist fucktards aren't even remotely close to power, while Bernie continues to defend every communist dictator he can think of.
Are you saying Bernie is a communist?

You don't think Trump has thugs doing terrible things in his name that he himself has actioned through his words and implications? Isn't this direct? Isn't this closer to power?
 

LeVeL

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Trump has been friendly with several world leaders that are exactly who you describe. Xi, Un, and several others. Why aren't you reacting to those instances instead of Sanders saying a broken clock is right twice a day?
Cooperation is not agreement. Obviously Trump (or any POTUS) has to work with China - they're a global superpower. That doesn't mean that we have to support the Chinese system. We can also work with the Saudis while disagreeing with their horrific treatment of gays.


Are you saying Bernie is a communist?

You don't think Trump has thugs doing terrible things in his name that he himself has actioned through his words and implications? Isn't this direct? Isn't this closer to power?
I'm not going to get bogged down in a senseless argument over what Bernie is or isn't. All I'm saying is that he is a communism sympathizer and I hate him for it. Bernie has repeatedly shown support for Castro, the USSR, and the Sandinistas. It's despicable when he tries to excuse the atrocities committed by Fidel by mumbling some nonsense about high literacy rates, for example - the Nazis were great engineers but that doesn't mean that they weren't pieces of excrement.

Trump is neither a communist nor a Nazi - not sure why you brought him up.
 

Momentum57

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Cooperation is not agreement.
And Trump has proved the reverse is true too. Trump supports Duterte, loves his death penalty, and murder squads for drug dealers. Duterte wants U.S. troops out of the Philippines in two years. (I think Trump just wants Jollibee)

I'm not going to get bogged down in a senseless argument over what Bernie is or isn't. All I'm saying is that he is a communism sympathizer and I hate him for it. Bernie has repeatedly shown support for Castro, the USSR, and the Sandinistas. It's despicable when he tries to excuse the atrocities committed by Fidel by mumbling some nonsense about high literacy rates, for example - the Nazis were great engineers but that doesn't mean that they weren't pieces of excrement

Trump is neither a communist nor a Nazi - not sure why you brought him up.
I think Trump is a White Nationalist with fascist intentions. I think the argument reasoning you made against Sanders is very applicable to Trump. I don't know what Sanders is but I know he's denied and denounced over and over. Trump has suggested violence openly. Trump has not denounced white supremacists who have killed in his nsme. Trump is in power (emphasis) and aggressively expanded the powers of the executive while Republican sycophants fawn and cheer as he diminishes the legislative branch. How can you as a libertarian support him even tacitly when you look how he's disrespected legislative intent?
 

Blind_Io

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Nazi is to specific. They were simply the most famous book burners(destroyers) in history. The USSR was famous for throwing anyone they disagreed with into prison, and they also either outright destroyed, or made it clear there were repercussions for stepping into a realm of discorse the State deemed contrary to the benefit of the State(religion as an example).
Don't forget the largest offender of this, the Communist Revolution in China - a huge number of cultural artifacts and records going back thousands of years were destroyed in attempt to re-write the history of China as the history of the Party.

Authoritarians attempt to control information; by controlling information one controls the population. As Orwell pointed out, "Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." This is why The National Archives editing photos of anti-Trump rallies and seeking to destroy records of our human rights abuses is so egregious and terrifying.
 

ScarFace88

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I'm much more interested in this. You place a modifying clause after stating your party. Why?
Two reasons, main;y.
Florida requires you to be a member of a party to vote in its primary. If you're an independent, you don't get to participate.

Second, I don't agree with the party's agenda across the board. While I agree with its stance on economic issues and the second amendment (that said, my stance on the second amendment is extreme compared to the party leadership); I disagree with its stance on LGBT issues, drug regulation, abortion (I still think it's abhorrent and something to be avoided, but I think making it illegal will not make it go away). I think I'm definitely a bit outside the mainstream Republican party.
 

GRtak

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Don't forget the largest offender of this, the Communist Revolution in China - a huge number of cultural artifacts and records going back thousands of years were destroyed in attempt to re-write the history of China as the history of the Party.

Authoritarians attempt to control information; by controlling information one controls the population. As Orwell pointed out, "Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." This is why The National Archives editing photos of anti-Trump rallies and seeking to destroy records of our human rights abuses is so egregious and terrifying.

ISIS is another example of a group that has destroyed artifacts that show their versions of facts differ from reality.
 

Blind_Io

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You're right - they are another example of the dichotomy Orwell described.
 

LeVeL

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I think Trump is a White Nationalist with fascist intentions. I think the argument reasoning you made against Sanders is very applicable to Trump. I don't know what Sanders is but I know he's denied and denounced over and over. Trump has suggested violence openly. Trump has not denounced white supremacists who have killed in his nsme. Trump is in power (emphasis) and aggressively expanded the powers of the executive while Republican sycophants fawn and cheer as he diminishes the legislative branch. How can you as a libertarian support him even tacitly when you look how he's disrespected legislative intent?
Well, I completely disagree with you. I've had this argument again and again countless times already so I'll keep this brief:

Trump HAS condemned white supremacists.
Trump is pro-LGBT.
Trump has hired women, blacks, and gays into his administration.
Under Trump black and Hispanic unemployment has hit all-time lows.
Trump's prison reform has benefited blacks more than anyone.
Trump has been very pro-Israel.

All of the above are evidence that he is NOT a white nationalist.

Typically the counter arguments I hear are out-of-context quotes about "animals", "rapists and murderers", and "good people on both sides" - all ridiculous mischaracterizations of what Trump actually said. Please surprise me with a real retort because otherwise this is just groundhog day.
 

Momentum57

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Thank you for responding and your candor

Two reasons, main;y.
Florida requires you to be a member of a party to vote in its primary. If you're an independent, you don't get to participate.
I find this compelling and I wish more would say I'm a party member and I hope to change the party to better reflect my views

Second, I don't agree with the party's agenda across the board.
Who does?

While I agree with its stance on economic issues and the second amendment (that said, my stance on the second amendment is extreme compared to the party leadership); I disagree with its stance on LGBT issues, drug regulation, abortion (I still think it's abhorrent and something to be avoided, but I think making it illegal will not make it go away). I think I'm definitely a bit outside the mainstream Republican party.
You sound exactly like a mainstream Republican. I worked for a Republican campaign I have seen the crosstabs.

You like guns don't think any legislation could possibly answer a mental health issue. But you can't support legislation for mental health because it's too costly.

I had beliefs around conservative economic policy and fiscal conservative views. I ultimately found the Republican party not only didn't share those views but aggressively overspends and that the the policy they pursued was far from their talking points.

They are spending the money that could pay for a national healthcare policy and getting far less than an investment in securing the welfare of their citizens and claiming to be broke. They jeopardize our second amendment protections to drive up the debt and pretend to be conservative.

On a secondary note

The Republican party is maybe more gay than Democrats. The former Republican Chairman and Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman came out. There was a former Fox News Host and I know of a family member of a Fox News Trump guy who was gay but very closeted here in Colorado... Republicans just believe Christian voters won't vote for ambiguity on this. Now the problem with this is suicide, drug use, and a lonely unfulfilled life. Now Trump is rubbing religious voters noses in it with Grenell but hey he's giving them a big oppressive government to use against women's productive rights.
 

Momentum57

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Well, I completely disagree with you...

Trump HAS condemned white supremacists.
Trump is pro-LGBT.
Trump has hired women, blacks, and gays into his administration.
Under Trump black and Hispanic unemployment has hit all-time lows.
Trump's prison reform has benefited blacks more than anyone.
Trump has been very pro-Israel.

All of the above are evidence that he is NOT a white nationalist.
I think his fascist intentions are of greater concern. I was in Kyoto having breakfast when I heard of Proclamation 9844 which declared an emergency and redistributed congressional funds to pay for a wall.

He's embracing white nationalist and the idea he has a black on his cabinet or hired gays is supposed to exonerate him is laughable. Alot of Nazi supporters were sieg heiling at their execution.
 

Blind_Io

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Well, I completely disagree with you. I've had this argument again and again countless times already so I'll keep this brief:

Trump HAS condemned white supremacists.
Trump is pro-LGBT.
Trump has hired women, blacks, and gays into his administration.
Under Trump black and Hispanic unemployment has hit all-time lows.
Trump's prison reform has benefited blacks more than anyone.
Trump has been very pro-Israel.

All of the above are evidence that he is NOT a white nationalist.

Typically the counter arguments I hear are out-of-context quotes about "animals", "rapists and murderers", and "good people on both sides" - all ridiculous mischaracterizations of what Trump actually said. Please surprise me with a real retort because otherwise this is just groundhog day.
Most of those things have been thoroughly refuted in the Trump Presidency thread - at great length and with multiple citations. It's disappointing that you are still running out those time Fox News talking points as if they are valid to the argument or true.

He condemned white nationalists only after validating them - and his condemnation was the usual political double-speak around the issue while also being half-hearted at best.
He's not Anti-LGBT - that's not the same
Trump will hire anyone who agrees to be his sycophant. Tokenism is also a thing, this is the "I have a black friend" argument.
Unemployment has been dropping since the economic recovery started (under Obama) across the board, of course it will drop for minority groups too. That doesn't say anything about Trump's policies or attitudes. Also, the economic recovery has slowed under Trump and is now starting to miss growth projections. In Q3 of 2019 GDP was at 1.9%, down from 3.4% in Q3 of 2018. This contributed to an underwhelming GDP of 2.3% for 2019 overall.
Prison reform would benefit black Americans more because they are the most incarcerated. This is regression towards the mean and low-hanging political fruit.
Being pro-Israel has nothing to do with anything that has been mentioned - it's also not a good thing since Trump admires autocrats. Netanyahu was also just reamed for corruption, so maybe touting that particular leaning isn't so great.
 

LeVeL

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I think his fascist intentions are of greater concern. I was in Kyoto having breakfast when I heard of Proclamation 9844 which declared an emergency and redistributed congressional funds to pay for a wall.

He's embracing white nationalist and the idea he has a black on his cabinet or hired gays is supposed to exonerate him is laughable. Alot of Nazi supporters were sieg heiling at their execution.
Well, I support the wall so you're not going to get very far with me using that argument. Got anything else? Any evidence that Trump is an evil Nazi at all?


Most of those things have been thoroughly refuted in the Trump Presidency thread
Yes, and your ignorant rants are largely why I don't bother going into that dumpster fire of a thread anymore. That thread has turned into a progressive circle-jerk of retardation - please don't spread your mental disease into this thread too.
 

Momentum57

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Well, I support the wall so you're not going to get very far with me using that argument. Got anything else? Any evidence that Trump is an evil Nazi at all?
Ok you're a Republican. You ignore the libertarian arguments that the executive unchecked in an emergency state is in effect a fascist state because you support the end result. How are you not supporting fascism? How are you not just blatantly saying "I'm not a libertarian"?

Other than him registering "evil nazi" you will passionately defend him because you're a Republican. It's ok just admit it he could shoot your mother you would kiss his boots.

Because if you were a libertarian you would recognize that Trump's jingoistic appeal to ultranationalist fervor, extolling American exceptionalism right down to the slogan ‘Make America Great Again,’ a paraphrase of Hitler’s promise to restore German greatness. Just call him Daddy already.
 

LeVeL

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Ok you're a Republican. You ignore the libertarian arguments that the executive unchecked in an emergency state is in effect a fascist state because you support the end result. How are you not supporting fascism? How are you not just blatantly saying "I'm not a libertarian"?

Other than him registering "evil nazi" you will passionately defend him because you're a Republican. It's ok just admit it he could shoot your mother you would kiss his boots.
Now you're just being dumb - shame really, we started this off well. Remember how several posts ago I said that I'm not any one thing? Well, it's true - there are some things I'm conservative about, some things I'm liberal about, and some things I'm libertarian about - most importantly I don't give a rat's ass what anyone calls me. There's plenty I don't like about Trump but overall he's done a hell of a job and the country is doing very, very well - no amount of fear-mongering and screaming "omg nazzies!" is going to change that.
 

Momentum57

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Now you're just being dumb - shame really, we started this off well.
Bullshit you're a Republican and and afraid to say so.

Remember how several posts ago I said that I'm not any one thing? Well, it's true - there are some things I'm conservative about, some things I'm liberal about, and some things I'm libertarian about - most importantly I don't give a rat's ass what anyone calls me.
Good you're a Republican

There's plenty I don't like about Trump but overall he's done a hell of a job and the country is doing very, very well - no amount of fear-mongering and screaming "omg nazzies!" is going to change that.
Good because you can't run from being a Republican
And yes his policy is fascist in not only effect but construction
 
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Momentum57

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Yeah, that's exactly it - I'm terrified of some random dude on the internet. Yep, ya got me.
No your afraid to say you have no principles. That you support a white supremacists enabling party. That you can't differentiate your views from a Nazi party supporter
 
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