Renault found GUILTY but escape punishment.

They were found guilty of being in possession of the documents, but the FIA were not able to prove that they had used it to their advantage hence no penalty, this is also why Renault have not been punished.

So on that basis, why were McLaren punished?
 
It's really sad, that FIA has some sort of double standars, but as a Ferrari fan i really like thier "positive attitude" towards Ferrari.
 
Nothing to say.

DOESN'T LOOK LIKE NOTHING!

Anyway, Mclaren have had a really terrible terrible year. OK so Renault didn't use the material, but there's got to be some sort of punishment for having the material. Also it seems that Renault have dealt with this spycase a lot better than Mclaren did. Remember Ron's stupid extra-long letters about integrity and stuff, and Jean Todt's open reply and then another open reply to that letter.

They really made the whole thing public and could have just shut up like Renault did. I hope Renault don't sue Mclaren, it seems a little bit stupid.
 
whether Renault is going to sue McLaren or not I'm not so sure~

but those faggots in that bloody stupidly biased communists FIA is going to sue The Times for one of Martin Brundle's columns for libel or defamation or whatever those freakin asshole who's so busy sucking Jean Todt's cock is going to sue~

as for the McLaren case, most of the people who know a bit more about F1 than the general public knew it's a witch-hunt. And that asshole Max Mosley had pretty much admitted it now~
Remember what they punished McLaren for in their statements right after the hearing~? now Mad Max seems to have changed his mind:
"Renault admitted from the outset that the information was discussed among a wider circle of engineers," Mosley explained.

"I do not have a problem with Ron (Dennis)," he continued. "I just want to hear the truth if we have to solve an internal problem.

"During the World Council meeting on 26 July I have the impression that he did not tell us the truth."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if I remembered correctly, what FIA punished McLaren for was for those emails discussing certain details (that every other team knew already anyway cos they all have spies) about the Ferrari F2007, mainly weight distribution and those kinda minor details... they were caught because of these email conversations, and the FIA proved ABSOBLUTELY NOTHING about whether those information were used in the McLaren's car at all~!

and now they're saying that it's ok to discuss another team's secrets among "a wider circle of engineers". What the fork is wrong is Mad Max.... When u're going to run the sport with double standard, at least shut the fork up about it....
 
The FIA have stepped in to stop spying in 2008.

45679_2.jpg


New spying clampdown

Following the realisation that everyday technology has been behind much of this year?s spying scandals, officials have launched a paddock-wide clampdown.

The use of photocopiers will be closely monitored by a new ?copying scrutineer? and, to prevent surreptitious phone calls and text messages, slim-line mobile phones are to be banned, replaced by giant, easily visible handsets (above), as trialled by Ferrari in Jerez this week.

Source
 
According to Alonso and his emails, more than one person saw the documents that coughlin had. Dennis originally said that coughlin was the only one who had viewed the documents but was forced to concede that more than one person had viewed the documents. Hence the big fine after the original decision.

So on that basis, why were McLaren punished?

Read his other post :rolleyes:

I can't recall that it has been explained with these words back in September, but I does seem like a good explanation for this trial. :lol: McLaren's $70million fine seems a bit harsh compared to this.:(
 
Read his other post :rolleyes:

That still does not explain the difference between McLaren and Renault unless stevanford1 is claiming they fined them ?50m simply because Dennis did not know the full facts at the original trial.
 
The facts of the two cases are the same;
-McLaren; First thought to only be one man, then upon discovering that it was actually 3 people that knew about it, $100m fine and a write-off of the year.
-Renault; Always known to be known to and studied by a whole team of (>3) engineers, no punishment.

So McLaren's punishment was... for lying/for Ron not knowing who knew what? But that's at odds with the FIA's own explanation.

I should point out I don't think Renault should have been punished for this because I don't think that McLaren should have been punished either. But if the FIA are going to punish one team so harshly they have to be consistent.
 
That still does not explain the difference between McLaren and Renault unless stevanford1 is claiming they fined them ?50m simply because Dennis did not know the full facts at the original trial.

As a law student you should have worked out by now that ?15m of the ?50m fine will be paid by the british tax payer ;)
I agree that the a proper trial with uninfluenced judges would have yielded a more differentiated outcome, i.e. some severe punishment for Alonso, de la Rosa and Coughlin, but not for McLaren. This was more about politics than anything else.
Nobody knew in September that Kimi would be that good afterall...:lol: I guess that if Kimi would have had a better standing in Hungary with realistic chances to win championship, they wouldn't have made that offer to Alonso.
 
The facts of the two cases are the same;
-McLaren; First thought to only be one man, then upon discovering that it was actually 3 people that knew about it, $100m fine and a write-off of the year.
-Renault; Always known to be known to and studied by a whole team of (>3) engineers, no punishment.

So McLaren's punishment was... for lying/for Ron not knowing who knew what? But that's at odds with the FIA's own explanation.

I should point out I don't think Renault should have been punished for this because I don't think that McLaren should have been punished either. But if the FIA are going to punish one team so harshly they have to be consistent.

Exactly right. In the end, to us, it looks like McLaren were fined $100m for lying. :? This is the problem when we don't know all the facts about the case.
 
Now Renault not only get Alonso back, but they get to sue Mclaren for $100M? :hammer:
 
In the end we probably all knew Renault weren't going to be punished. It's a real shame the FIA/Max Mosley is biased, Renault should've been given a fine, even if it wasn't has big as the McLaren fine, a punishment should still have been given. :(
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64369

So McLaren admit that they allowed the Ferrari data much deeper into the team... This puts everything into perspective and is a perfect reason why McLaren were fined $100m and Renault weren't. If they admit the dissemination of data 3 months after the final verdict, then there's no more excuse.
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64369

So McLaren admit that they allowed the Ferrari data much deeper into the team... This puts everything into perspective and is a perfect reason why McLaren were fined $100m and Renault weren't. If they admit the dissemination of data 3 months after the final verdict, then there's no more excuse.

This is bye-the-bye. The FIA did not know about this at the time of either verdict so it is no excuse for their blatant bias.
 
^^You mean you hope that after this statement, the FIA snaps up a severe penalty for McLaren for 2008.

They won't though.
 
I thought this whole Renault thing was a bunch of blame-shifting on Ron Dennis' part and I still think Ron Dennis is a cheating liar. But if the WMSC found Renault GUILTY (which is what I was waiting for, a verdict) and STILL didnt punish them, that's pretty pathetic. I thought Mclaren were making a bunch of noise about nothing when it came to their accusations against Renault, but it was all speculation, hence my waiting until the verdict to really speak my piece about it. But if they're GUILTY, and DIDNT GET PUNISHMENT, then why the hell was Mclaren punished? They were punished for HAVING IT, not USING IT.

As a Ferrari fan it makes me question the nature of the the Ferrari verdict. I've always felt hte FIA were biased against Ferrari (The lone Italian team amongst a bunch of English ones) but this has made me reconsider.

Either way, I think Mclaren deserved their penalty, and if Renault did the same thing and broke the regulation that forbade POSSESESION of another team's IP, then tehy should get an appropriate penalty also. The fact that tehy're not makes me sick. There better be a good reason for this.
 
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As a Ferrari fan it makes me question the nature of the the Ferrari verdict. I've always felt hte FIA were biased against Ferrari (The lone Italian team amongst a bunch of English ones) but this has made me reconsider.

:lmao:

Oh you surely have no idea...:rolleyes:

I wont go into details, but clearly you're forgetting the GWPC debacle, Indianapolis 2005, the countless Ferrari favouratism over the years (Silverstone 1998 and Malaysia 1999 are but two examples), and the fact that Max Mosely has even gone on record to say that he actually favours Ferrari for the same reason you mentioned (a lone Italian team amongst a bunch of English ones).

As for the rest of your post, it's well reasoned. The WMSC ruling against McLaren was merely for possession of the data, not because it might've been used in any way. Therefore I fail to see how Renault escaped penalty. It is severely unfair, unjust and only shows how McLaren have been vindicated against through-out 2007.
 
"the lone Italian team amongst a bunch of English ones".

Hmm - I thought that Renault was French?


And Sauber is not English. And Honda is not English. And Toyota is not English. etc. Now they may choose to set up in England but that is because all the infrastructure is here - you can get the aerospace quality bits made easily and the engineering skills are here too, totally different matter.
 
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