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Retest the Zonda
- Thread starter Aflac
- Start date
I dont remember Gordon writing Koenissegg a letter. He was aske what he thought of current supercars in "Evo" magazine a year or 2 ago.
He sad (and Im trying to remember so I may be a little bit wrong)
1) That the Veyron was pointless as a supercar as it was big, heavy and its only purpose was to go 250mph. Which is silly as he said it wont be better than the F1 just because its faster, it needs to be lighter, easier to drive etc to be truley better. Not just faster Vmax.
2) That the Kones. was pointless because it had a supercharger. And it should be a Naturally Aspirated engine to be good. Plus (at the time) they werent producing cars so he couldnt comment specifically until they'd built a few and deleivered them to owners.
3) He liked the Zonda. He wouldnt have styled it like that, but he said the quality's good. Horatio Zonda was inspired by the F1 and pratically mugged Gordon to make him come and look at his new car :lol: "it hasnt got power steering or abs" Which GM appreciated.
He sad (and Im trying to remember so I may be a little bit wrong)
1) That the Veyron was pointless as a supercar as it was big, heavy and its only purpose was to go 250mph. Which is silly as he said it wont be better than the F1 just because its faster, it needs to be lighter, easier to drive etc to be truley better. Not just faster Vmax.
2) That the Kones. was pointless because it had a supercharger. And it should be a Naturally Aspirated engine to be good. Plus (at the time) they werent producing cars so he couldnt comment specifically until they'd built a few and deleivered them to owners.
3) He liked the Zonda. He wouldnt have styled it like that, but he said the quality's good. Horatio Zonda was inspired by the F1 and pratically mugged Gordon to make him come and look at his new car :lol: "it hasnt got power steering or abs" Which GM appreciated.
fbc
Retired Moderator
^ 
to Gordon Murray. He's spot on with his Veyron comments, I see his point about the Koenissegg using a supercharger, though I wouldn't call the car pointless because of that.
to Gordon Murray. He's spot on with his Veyron comments, I see his point about the Koenissegg using a supercharger, though I wouldn't call the car pointless because of that.
RichW said:
What a senseless statemente...what difference does it make? If it?s naturally aspirated, turbocharged, supercharged, Miller cycle, whatever, why is it pointless.
Gordon Murray said:
fbc
Retired Moderator
Redliner said:RichW said:
What a senseless statemente...what difference does it make? If it?s naturally aspirated, turbocharged, supercharged, Miller cycle, whatever, why is it pointless.
Gordon Murray said:
He's making the point that it's much much easier to get a given hp figure using forced induction - and that's a fair point I reckon. But I don't agree that it makes the rest of the car pointless.
fbc said:
Ok, I agree, fair point. Calling it pointless is a bit too far.
BUT using this line of thinking Kristian Koenigsegg could say the F1 was crap because it?s easy to create a lightweight car without powersteering , traction control and ABS or because it has a BMW engine.
Gordon Murray is in his own right to criticize other cars, because the F1 is fantastic, he?s just not focusing on what should be compared.
Top Gear Girl said:
Did you not see the post by bihus posted with the direct comparison? The Zonda had faster times on the 'ring and Hockenheim.
In addition, you talk about track usage of these two cars and then go on to spout off how speeds over 120 are useless? Make up your mind.
Top Gear Girl said:
Any car that can do the lap times the Zonda can with the beauty of an italian car and muscle of a german engine is, in fact, amazing. Of all the street cars in the world, it is in the top 20 (averaging lap times of various tracks) of being the fastest around a track. It's carbon fiber body is a piece of serious engineering (as is the Mercedes engine). However, it still has an air of absolute luxury with chamois leather, buckled boot latches, brused Al everywhere, exquisite stitching, and the wild looks of a supercar. The 'egg is on par with it. It's more brutal where as the Zonda is more refined. The Enzo is only useful on a track (poor ride quality on streets, low nose, not a car you could use on a daily basis). The Veyron isn't even in production so I can't see how you can call it better.
The point is, all the cars you mentioned have their own strengths and weaknesses. "Better" is subjective. They are all stonkingly fast. They are all totally expensive. They are all amazing pieces of engineering. You may like some better than others, but that doesn't mean the ones you don't like aren't as good. You certainly can't say that while being objective.
Top Gear Girl said:
Overrated? This shows you haven't ever ridden in an F1, which makes this statement wholely sad. The 'egg may have the top speed. but look at how long it took a car to beat the F1. Look how much HP it needs to get to that speed. Look at the time it takes that car to get to that top speed. And the fact that the speed is only a few MPH faster that the F1...it's not like it blitzed it by 20MPH over the F1's speed.
McLaren engineers are at the top of their game. They are paid to be the best automotive engineers in the world and this years F1 teams is showing that they deserve that title. They are simply kicking the crap out of every other manufacturer out there.
In addition, the car is useable in everyday life. 3 people. Lots of storage space. Lots of TQ for puttering around town. A BMW engine that is incredibly reliable (see LeMans). The car is at the peak of automotive engineering even today.
Top Gear Girl said:
..as a side note, the K'egg logo is a "ghost" that the squadron who used to reside there would use in the past.
-Prince
You have to remember that Gordon is a stickler for weight. And I agree with his principles. Any car that weighs as much as a Koen. or Veyron is never going to offer the same driving enjoyment as even a Lotus Elise. And thats what a supercar should be all about. It should hit 200mph but feel as direct as a Lotus. And be RWD with a large capacity NA engine so theres linear power, that changes as you go further up the range. (Not like a supercharger everything all the time)
I'll try to find the article.
I'll try to find the article.
Top Gear Girl
Not A Dude
therem3dy said:
http://www.koenigsegg.com/thecars/design.asp?design=6
Koenigsegg Emblem
The shield with its divided fields of red and yellow diamonds - within a blue frame - is based upon the original ancient Coat of Arms of the medieval Koenigsegg family from Schwaben, Germany. The original is a single field of golden diamonds surrounded by ornaments. Christian von Koenigsegg, founder of Koenigsegg Automotive - can trace his lineage back to the late 12th century when his ancestors became Knights of the German / Roman Empire.
fbc
Retired Moderator
therem3dy said:
Interestingly a Donkevoort clubman style car with a 270hp motor has lapped the 'ring in 7:18 - it was running some extra wings though, but they would also have hurt the top speed.
Aflac said:
The F1 is lighter - but at 1180kg the Koen' is still nice and light (I didn't know it was that light
)
Janus
Well-Known Member
Ximian said:
:shock:
As much as I would like to see that
I must agree with TGG on this one. I've seen the Koenigsegg shield logo many times on many things, including the official Koenigsegg website and an actual car, I have never seen this "ghost logo" before.Isn't it more likely that someone has added this to their car...although god knows why you would!
watto
Unloved and lacking a title
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Ximian said:bihus said:Top Gear Girl said:
The Koenigsegg CCR logo...
Someone got owned. Post nudes to make up for it.
*Can't believe i'm about to support TGG*
No, she didnt get pwned actually. She was describing the emblem of the MANUFACTURER, not the MODEL. Someone wanted to know what the K'segg emblem was, I take that as being the manufacturer emblem...
watto said:
She is right...the ghost is a homage to the Sweden Air Force if I remember correctly.
It?s a little like the Four leaf clover in some of Alfa Romeo?s models, in the way that it?s just a symbol and not the actual manufacturer badge or something like that.
Qualities not great but its readable. I think I was a little bit wrong with how I recalled some of the story. So apologies
Enjoy
http://img355.imageshack.**/img355/5016/gm11nm.jpg
http://img194.imageshack.**/img194/2381/gm35lc.jpg
http://img194.imageshack.**/img194/2816/gm48bu.jpg
Enjoy
http://img355.imageshack.**/img355/5016/gm11nm.jpg
http://img194.imageshack.**/img194/2381/gm35lc.jpg
http://img194.imageshack.**/img194/2816/gm48bu.jpg
Was page 71 publicity? Anyway, thanks a lot.
What evo # is that?
Oh, and TGG replied with Koenigsegg logo when therem3dy was confusing logos. So, it was therem3dy that got owned because he confused both. And TGG if she didn't know the ghost logo, and was trying to correct him, which she did. The two logos are right, so no ownage.
What evo # is that?
Oh, and TGG replied with Koenigsegg logo when therem3dy was confusing logos. So, it was therem3dy that got owned because he confused both. And TGG if she didn't know the ghost logo, and was trying to correct him, which she did. The two logos are right, so no ownage.
