Rumor: GM and Chrysler in merger talks & other shakeups

Lupin_IV

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...=the design of the Camry is definitely more modern and interesting, but it feels very cheap compared to the Taurus. Hard plastics and bad fittings are found throughout the new car. Ijust don't understand how Ford can design such a boring looking interior... And to think that during the late eighties and early nineties, they had a car that was literally ahead of the competition.

*images*

Aside from the buttons on the wheel, I like the look of the Ford interior over the Toyota.
 

Spectre

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First off they always say they are new and competitive products yet they are never that competitive are they. Worst off it will come too little too late I think the American Motor industry in general is fighting for a losing cause.

That being said have you been in the Ford Five Hundred/Ford Taurus they are quite nice and very well put together. The problem is in comparison to the Toyota Camry well...

It's their own fault. Instead of coming up with competitive products (or importing ones from their other markets), they kept churning out crap and concentrated on trucks instead of broadening their competitive offerings. Chrysler was actually doing pretty well, but Daimler screwed them up pretty bad.

I have been in several 500s. The first one I ever test drove spat its CVT gearbox out the bottom three minutes after leaving the dealership. My impressions of them haven't improved too much since then. They break early and often.
 

No Boss

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It's their own fault. Instead of coming up with competitive products (or importing ones from their other markets), they kept churning out crap and concentrated on trucks instead of broadening their competitive offerings. Chrysler was actually doing pretty well, but Daimler screwed them up pretty bad.

/thread.
 

Wizegui

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@ Specre - I'd give you a rep if I could, but I can't unfortunately, so maybe next time, Thats spot on. I still think the Chrysler cab forward cars and the Neon were some of the cleverest cars of that era. They had their issues, but they were definitely innovative.
 

'CruiserMan

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I'm still not entirely clear why Ford hasn't exported the Falcon from Australia. Maybe there's some issues with a LHD conversion, but I'm sure the American market would love it.
 

Tadite

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Going bankrupt isn't the end of the world.

If Ford (or GM) decide to go that route all sorts of interesting possibilities open up. You could spin off the international opp orations if they are profitable and have high enough economies of scale.

You also get to force renegotiation of all your contracts and can even dump your responsibility to your pensions onto good old Uncle Sam (this is what the Steel and Airline industry did).

Only reason none of the car companies have done it so far is political. That and you really don't want to have hundreds of thousands of grandmothers and grandfathers getting smaller checks in the mail...

I don't see a reason for GM to try to get bigger. They can't just buy there way out of these problems. They are already to big..... What they need to do is continue the path. Build better cars and reduce capacity in terms of dealerships, brands, and factories.
 

Hidden_Hunter

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I'm still not entirely clear why Ford hasn't exported the Falcon from Australia. Maybe there's some issues with a LHD conversion, but I'm sure the American market would love it.

They took a big pile of monies to do the conversion from the Australian government then half way through the engineering Ford America decided "actually, no thanks" this was back in the BA day from memory.
 

Ramseus

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I'm still not entirely clear why Ford hasn't exported the Falcon from Australia. Maybe there's some issues with a LHD conversion, but I'm sure the American market would love it.

Ford doesn't have the balls. Pontiac has its Aussie cars - the gto/monaro kind of failed, but the g8/commodore is great success. Step up Ford, step up.
 

bartboy9891

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Ford doesn't have the balls. Pontiac has its Aussie cars - the gto/monaro kind of failed, but the g8/commodore is great success. Step up Ford, step up.

It's a helluva lot safer to concentrate on mpg as opposed hp right now. Hopefully the cars that Ford promised for the US (Fiesta, Euro Focus etc) will be very competitive and change people's minds about the company. If they get their run of the mill cars to sell well, they can work on getting some serious performance cars here.
 

Spectre

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The new Fiesta is coming to the US in 2009, if there's no problems, so it should make it here before Ford runs out of cash to burn.

Now the problems:
Euro Focus: Coming in 2010 as a 2011. About 24 months away.
Euro Mondeo: Coming 2012 at the earliest. 36 months away or more.

Ford only has about 18 months of cash left, or less. And there is no more money in the lending market available to them.


But hey, they pulled out all the stops and are now selling the Euro Transit Connect in the USA! :p

Someone at Ford's product planning department needs to be publicly executed. It only takes six to nine months to get a new car design fully certified by DOT - they should be running a crash (as in fast) certification program NOW to get the Focus, Mondeo and Transit in. Not in 24 months, not in three years, NOW. They need to get those cars here yesterday.
 
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argatoga

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How flexible are those UAW plants compared to their modern ones elsewhere in the world? Also the facelift of the new Taurus is coming out soon as well.

The new Fiesta is coming to the US in 2009, if there's no problems, so it should make it here before Ford runs out of cash to burn.

Now the problems:
Euro Focus: Coming in 2010 as a 2011. About 24 months away.
Euro Mondeo: Coming 2012 at the earliest. 36 months away or more.

Ford only has about 18 months of cash left, or less. And there is no more money in the lending market available to them.


But hey, they pulled out all the stops and are now selling the Euro Transit Connect in the USA! :p

Someone at Ford's product planning department needs to be publicly executed. It only takes six to nine months to get a new car design fully certified by DOT - they should be running a crash (as in fast) certification program NOW to get the Focus, Mondeo and Transit in. Not in 24 months, not in three years, NOW. They need to get those cars here yesterday.
 

Spectre

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Not very. They take months and months to retool and there's a lot of hand labor involved in running the machines - all because the UAW has steadily resisted automation and retraining.

Meanwhile, IIRC, the new Toyota plant in San Antonio can switch from big pickups to little ones in a week. The older Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio is even faster - their engine line makes Honda Goldwing motorcycle engines in the morning, and Honda Accord engines in the afternoon. At one point they were doing the same with the body line - bikes in the morning, cars in the afternoon.
 

Ottobon

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I'd like to speak out about the UAW but i have a feeling one of their hackers would notice my IP adress and come the morning my house would be charred rubble.
 

zeoniks

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Man Spectre hit the nail on the head :)

There's a good chance this merger probably won't save them; they're only delaying the inevitable. It's like combining dog shit and cat shit together -- you're still getting shit at the end. I really can't wait for more news to come around about all the American companies.
 

Paul_The_Aussie

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Out o fthe 33 or so % that ford owns of Mazda I think they were selling 20%, still having a stake in it.
They need the $$ to fund their projects, sure it is short term but for now if they don't think of the short term there won't a long term.
 

WillDAQ

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Not very. They take months and months to retool and there's a lot of hand labor involved in running the machines - all because the UAW has steadily resisted automation and retraining.

Meanwhile, IIRC, the new Toyota plant in San Antonio can switch from big pickups to little ones in a week. The older Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio is even faster - their engine line makes Honda Goldwing motorcycle engines in the morning, and Honda Accord engines in the afternoon. At one point they were doing the same with the body line - bikes in the morning, cars in the afternoon.

This is the real problem, while Ford and the like were running off down the truck line Toyota was spending cash on two things:

1) Development of Hybrid Technologies
2) Polishing the Toyota Production System to a mirror finish

At the time they were laughed at, but right now I bet they'd be more than a little smug... were smugness not considered at odds with "the Toyota Way".


I suspect that the euro governments would buy them out to retain manufacturing capacity.
Italy definitely, France possibly, Germany unlikely, UK never in a million years.

Actually designing and making stuff is considered sooo last century by the powers at be in the UK, we make our money in banking... an endeavor that is sound, stable and that we excel at.. Oh shit...

It is me, or is this the start of America's very own British Leyland - random companies merged because someone thought it might solve all their problems and there's not really another option.
 

Spectre

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This is the real problem, while Ford and the like were running off down the truck line Toyota was spending cash on two things:

1) Development of Hybrid Technologies
2) Polishing the Toyota Production System to a mirror finish

At the time they were laughed at, but right now I bet they'd be more than a little smug... were smugness not considered at odds with "the Toyota Way".

The best part is that the first people Toyota approached about licensing the Prius' hybrid drive system was GM... who turned them down.

Nissan didn't. That's why we now have hybrid Altimas and no hybrid Impalas.

Stupidity all the way around at GM.
 
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