Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

[Spectre]

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

Welcome to 'Mericuh. Don't go to Utah, it's easier to get a gun than a beer.

I can get an illegal or even legal beer faster than I can get a firearm in UT. Nice try, though.

I could also purchase an illegal firearm in NYC, land of permits and restrictions and Euro-style gun control in about two hours. So much for that.

 

[prizrak]

I would guess that the poster you quoted was simply implying that a man has the duty to protect his family, and what better way to do that than with a firearm? Of course if he cannot (or doesn't want to) own a firearm, there are other methods but they won't be as effective most of the time.

*Wipes blood off his katana* You sure about that?

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Further, it doesn't take long to teach firearms safety. In fact, it probably took you more time to write that last post than it takes to teach someone the basics. Now actual marksmanship... That can take quite a while longer.

I can teach someone how to safely handle and use a firearm in about three, maybe five minutes. Actually hitting your target at a distance can take quite a lot longer.

Yep. Whenever I went to the range through one of those Groupon type deals they would take about 30 minutes to familiarize us with the weapons we would use and safety, the safety part took 5 minutes.

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I can get an illegal or even legal beer faster than I can get a firearm in UT. Nice try, though.

I could also purchase an illegal firearm in NYC, land of permits and restrictions and Euro-style gun control in about two hours. So much for that.

In fact you could get an illegal one faster, easier and most importantly cheaper than a legal one.

 

[Twerp128]

I just find the contrast funny, all sorts of austere alcohol regulation with fairly loose gun laws.

 

[Spectre]

I just find the contrast funny, all sorts of austere alcohol regulation with fairly loose gun laws.

In 2010, alcohol killed 10,228 people in accidents nationwide. Firearms killed 606 people in accidents nationwide.

The Utahns may have a point about which is more dangerous.

Sources: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf and http://www.centurycouncil.org/sites/default/files/images/AIDF.gif

 

[biggie]

And it is mostly mormons, pretty much the religon of preppers. Don't drink, get guns, and have a year supply of food/water.

 

[Twerp128]

606 accidental firearm deaths, it's statistics like that why I don't tell people I own a gun. Because you are immediately painted as a zealot, and frankly I can't blame the other side. It's a shame because nearly all gun owners I know are nice, reasonable people. But how can you even start a common sense dialogue with all the xenophobic flag waving and paranoia drowning out the voice of any sensible conversation about gun regulation?

 

[prizrak]

606 accidental firearm deaths, it's statistics like that why I don't tell people I own a gun. Because you are immediately painted as a zealot, and frankly I can't blame the other side. It's a shame because nearly all gun owners I know are nice, reasonable people. But how can you even start a common sense dialogue with all the xenophobic flag waving and paranoia drowning out the voice of any sensible conversation about gun regulation?

I am trying to decipher your point and failing at it... is 606 accidental deaths too low of a number and reality is higher? Is it the fact that injuries are not included?

I think the biggest problem is that we already have sensible gun regulation it's just not enforced or underenforced. Taking away fully automatic weapons, I can agree with that. Background checks/psychiatric evaluation for gun permits? Sure seems to make sense. Registering firearms? Would cost more money in implementing and maintaining than any good it would do but as long as there is a law preventing LEO from taking guns away based on the registry sure. A law that bans me from ricing out a gun any way I want? Umm no, thats not happening.

What further doesn't help with gun control conversation is the whole open carry stupidity. I have seen a ton of YT videos with people open carrying and either complaining how the cops treat them or just making fun of all the people who get nervous around people like that. It's like dude you are only making it worse for the rest of us, you don't need to be carrying an AK around, that's a good way to get it taken away by someone motivated...

 

[biggie]

Open carry can work, but only in certain places. Growing up I saw tons of people open carrying, was use to it and use to guns at a young age, so I learned that they were tools and it was the people that had them that mattered.

Most open carry people have good intentions, its the idiots that film themselves and are looking for reactions just to turn it into the media that are idiots.

Guy in Oregon did it correctly, went to JC Penney with OC AR and Pistol, called the local authorities before he went to warn them. Something has to convice the scared public that they are around guns and shouldn't have anything to fear on a day to day basis.

 

[prizrak]

OC is a good way to get mugged for your guns though, you don't have eyes on the back of your head and a well placed blunt object is really all that is needed. It's like showing everyone you got a ton of cash on you.

 

[Spectre]

OC is a good way to get mugged for your guns though, you don't have eyes on the back of your head and a well placed blunt object is really all that is needed. It's like showing everyone you got a ton of cash on you.

In states where open carry is legal (such as Arizona or Vermont), this scenario is almost unheard of, actually. Apparently criminals are worried about what happens next if they don't manage to knock the carrier out with the first hit.

606 accidental firearm deaths, it's statistics like that why I don't tell people I own a gun. Because you are immediately painted as a zealot, and frankly I can't blame the other side. It's a shame because nearly all gun owners I know are nice, reasonable people. But how can you even start a common sense dialogue with all the xenophobic flag waving and paranoia drowning out the voice of any sensible conversation about gun regulation?

I am trying to decipher your point and failing at it... is 606 accidental deaths too low of a number and reality is higher? Is it the fact that injuries are not included?

I'm not getting his point either. That was 606 people out of over 300 million nationwide, not 606 out of the population of Utah.

To put that in the proper perspective, you are more likely to be accidentally killed by the following things:
Gravity (26,009 killed by accidental falling)
Water (3,782 killed by accidental drowning)
Fire (2,782 killed by accidental fire - not sure how that works, is that opposed to intentional fire or incidental fire, or what?)
Chemicals (33,041 killed by accidental poisoning)
Incompetent doctors (2,490 killed by 'complications of medical care')

Source is the CDC link above.

 

[biggie]

In states where open carry is legal (such as Arizona or Vermont), this scenario is almost unheard of, actually. Apparently criminals are worried about what happens next if they don't manage to knock the carrier out with the first hit.

NC is the same. OC is legal everywhere CC is.

 

[prizrak]

In states where open carry is legal (such as Arizona or Vermont), this scenario is almost unheard of, actually. Apparently criminals are worried about what happens next if they don't manage to knock the carrier out with the first hit.

Happened to this poor bastard

 

[Spectre]

Happened to this poor bastard

Hence the 'almost' unheard of part. Arizona ran the numbers in the mid 2000s and it was less than one open carrier a year.

One of the other (speculated) reasons why is that most open carriers look like cops to criminals and they know that mugging a cop is a bad idea.

 

[ScarFace88]

Happened to this poor bastard

That dude looks like he's been juicing...

 

[Spectre]

That dude looks like he's been juicing...

He also looks like about half the cops I've had drop in when I was out at the shop working on stuff.

 

[prizrak]

That dude looks like he's been juicing...

I was thinking that. He doesn't even need a gun...

 

[Momentum57]

Without a single law in place the market place is responding in an effort to limit exposure of violent imagery.

"We no longer accept ads showing semiautomatic weapons and guns pointed at people," Time Warner Cable said in a statement. "We stand by this policy. If it's essential to a business owner to show this kind of imagery in their commercials, there are other advertising options in the marketplace."

Source

If only news outlets would take charge and stop their indecent anti-hero worship. The suggestions that I had previously made offer more reasonable legislation than that offered by the congresswomen of California.

With this in mind I believe that television and radio should be prohibited from discussing a shooting event other than to announce that a shooting has occurred and state and region Ex: ?A shooting has occurred in southern Connecticut. In other news?? This is entirely constitutional under Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. Federal Communications Commission. Any further acknowledgment on television and radio will mean a penalty of 10% of profit of parent company. Newspapers can still publish these stories under first amendment protections however government may impose a limitation of information released. This period of reduced information would control the hype of these events which could cause people to want to emulate them.

Mental health should also be looked at but not to the extent that we vilify those who are mentally ill. Also there are those who are unidentified and have not had access to mental health care. Therefor I feel that mandatory annual cursory mental health checkups for every person over the age of 12 would reduce this chance of an event such as this occurring. This would normalize mental health and remove the stigma of receiving mental health treatment.

In a majority of these events the gunman has worn black clothing which must be reduced. No darker shade than navy should be available other than with acknowledgment of its societal threat. Combinations of darker shades should be reduced and those who wear such be under surveillance.

All of these could lead to a reduction of harm.

 

[prizrak]

Without a single law in place the market place is responding in an effort to limit exposure of violent imagery.

"We no longer accept ads showing semiautomatic weapons and guns pointed at people," Time Warner Cable said in a statement. "We stand by this policy. If it's essential to a business owner to show this kind of imagery in their commercials, there are other advertising options in the marketplace."

Source

If only news outlets would take charge and stop their indecent anti-hero worship. The suggestions that I had previously made offer more reasonable legislation than that offered by the congresswomen of California.

Stop trying to take black clothes from us fat people! They are slimming damnit!

 

[Spectre]

Without a single law in place the market place is responding in an effort to limit exposure of violent imagery.

"We no longer accept ads showing semiautomatic weapons and guns pointed at people," Time Warner Cable said in a statement. "We stand by this policy. If it's essential to a business owner to show this kind of imagery in their commercials, there are other advertising options in the marketplace."

Source

If only news outlets would take charge and stop their indecent anti-hero worship. The suggestions that I had previously made offer more reasonable legislation than that offered by the congresswomen of California.

That wasn't much of a sacrifice since there are basically no ads that use those techniques anyway, save for those promoting upcoming movies and shows. Now, will they also stop showing and promoting movies, television shows and music videos depicting guns being pointed at people?

Somehow I doubt it.


At any rate, the problem isn't the fact that these things are depicted but how they are depicted, just like anything else. There are plenty of media examples where the use of violence and the use of weapons are glorified - but these days there are very, very few media examples where the violence visibly nets its just reward (and therefore provides a message discouraging its use). In bygone days, a character who used violence to, say, rob a bank would be depicted as being arrested and tossed in jail in short order. These days we have numerous rap and other music videos that show people shooting, robbing, killing, whatever they want without consequence.

Media's not the problem, they're just reflecting the culture. But they certainly aren't helping and they could do something to change that.

Edit: On the other hand, there's always Morrissey's comment on the whole thing, from back in the 80s.

In our lifetime those who kill
The newsworld hands them stardom
And these are the ways
On which I was raised
These are the ways
On which I was raised


I never wanted to kill
I am not naturally evil
Such things I do
Just to make myself
More attractive to you
Have I failed ?

Which is about these murderous asshole twins.

 

[LeVeL]

Taking away fully automatic weapons, I can agree with that.

What's wrong with full autos?

Background checks/psychiatric evaluation for gun permits? Sure seems to make sense.

Agreed

Registering firearms? Would cost more money in implementing and maintaining than any good it would do but as long as there is a law preventing LEO from taking guns away based on the registry sure. A law that bans me from ricing out a gun any way I want? Umm no, thats not happening.

Registration of firearms is one thing that I will not be ok with under any circumstances. That's how the people get completely disarmed (see Hitler).

What further doesn't help with gun control conversation is the whole open carry stupidity. I have seen a ton of YT videos with people open carrying and either complaining how the cops treat them or just making fun of all the people who get nervous around people like that. It's like dude you are only making it worse for the rest of us, you don't need to be carrying an AK around, that's a good way to get it taken away by someone motivated...[/QUOTE]
Thing is, I wish people were more used to OC. I was in NH last weekend and every gun store employee was OC-ing and it didn't seem that weird.