School project on hybrids

Evel

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I'm doing a project for school, in which I have the thesis "Hybrids automobiles have a negative impact on the environment." So I'm turning to the FinalGear community for research information.

The nature of the project allows me to prove the thesis wrong, so feel free to provide information for either side of the argument. You will have to back the info up from either a reliable source or your personal experiece. Thanks in advance.
 
While mining in general is dirty business, going for Lithium is relatively safe compared to other minerals like coal. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1872561-1,00.html
I've seen many places cry out how the Lithium mines are polluting deathtraps, if you want to speak up for hybrids then this may help to counter the fearmongerers, at least for the mining itself. Not counting recycling, excessive shipping, refining, ...

This padded with some search for reliable sources may debunk the "OMG Lithium is running out" people.
 
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On the other hand, if the hybrid is not using lithium batteries (and most don't), nickel mining is highly toxic and damaging to the environment. Less damaging than lead, but then again lead is easy to recycle and nickel metal hydride isn't.

Next, by definition, a hybrid is going to be more damaging to build. Not only do you have all the equipment of a regular internal combustion car and all the materials that demands (iron, copper, aluminum, nickel, platinum, palladium, carbon, etc) to begin with, you then add the copper and nickel metal hydrides and rare earths that the electric drive system needs. All of that has to come from somewhere, and they are usually extracted and transported by the least emissions-regulated vehicles on the planet - mining equipment and trucks plus big oceangoing freighters.

Finally, at the end of its lifespan, a hybrid is inherently harder to recycle. Metals like steel and aluminum are easily recycled (simply flip the offending material into the nearest smelter), but nickel isn't and neither is lithium.
 
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"Hybrids automobiles have a negative impact on the environment."[...]The nature of the project allows me to prove the thesis wrong, so feel free to provide information for either side of the argument.
... well, there multiple ways on comparing the hybrid vehicle enviromentally to different alternatives. Petrol, Diesel, Electric, non-car alternatives (public transport, (motor-)bikes) ... if you want to state that hybrids are bad (or not) you first have to choose what to compare them to. Ideally, you compare it to a lot of those and also bundle it with the lifestyle of the people. Think about it, changing from a fuel waster to a hybrid might make good sense enviromentally on the first look, but if your daily commute is 100miles ... you might as well have kept the gas guzzler and moved 90 miles closer to your workplace. That makes much more sense.
 
Also consider that fossil fuels require mining, refining, transportation (sometimes by ocean going tankers and trucks) and so on. BUT as Spectre pointed out also keep in mind that hybrids still use all of the things that regular cars do AND electrical components.
 
Make sure to put in your report that I declared that hybrids suck, that wil convince em!
 
You could question their benefit over more conventional layouts like the VW Polo Bluemotion, which compares favourably in in most conditions.

-The money saved on purchase, running and disposal cost could be used on other goods with improved environmental efficiency.
-Resources used in manufacturing.
-Fuel consumption in most situations.
 
While mining in general is dirty business, going for Lithium is relatively safe compared to other minerals like coal. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1872561-1,00.html
I've seen many places cry out how the Lithium mines are polluting deathtraps, if you want to speak up for hybrids then this may help to counter the fearmongerers, at least for the mining itself. Not counting recycling, excessive shipping, refining, ...

This padded with some search for reliable sources may debunk the "OMG Lithium is running out" people.

I don't want to speak up for hybrids, but if the reality is that hybrids are environmentally friendly, I'm not going to hide that. Thanks for the info.

On the other hand, if the hybrid is not using lithium batteries (and most don't), nickel mining is highly toxic and damaging to the environment. Less damaging than lead, but then again lead is easy to recycle and nickel metal hydride isn't.

Next, by definition, a hybrid is going to be more damaging to build. Not only do you have all the equipment of a regular internal combustion car and all the materials that demands (iron, copper, aluminum, nickel, platinum, palladium, carbon, etc) to begin with, you then add the copper and nickel metal hydrides and rare earths that the electric drive system needs. All of that has to come from somewhere, and they are usually extracted and transported by the least emissions-regulated vehicles on the planet - mining equipment and trucks plus big oceangoing freighters.

Finally, at the end of its lifespan, a hybrid is inherently harder to recycle. Metals like steel and aluminum are easily recycled (simply flip the offending material into the nearest smelter), but nickel isn't and neither is lithium.

Very good information, thanks a lot!

... well, there multiple ways on comparing the hybrid vehicle enviromentally to different alternatives. Petrol, Diesel, Electric, non-car alternatives (public transport, (motor-)bikes) ... if you want to state that hybrids are bad (or not) you first have to choose what to compare them to. Ideally, you compare it to a lot of those and also bundle it with the lifestyle of the people. Think about it, changing from a fuel waster to a hybrid might make good sense enviromentally on the first look, but if your daily commute is 100miles ... you might as well have kept the gas guzzler and moved 90 miles closer to your workplace. That makes much more sense.

I will try to draw as many comparisons as possible, and I intend to mention things such as lifestyle and driving style.

Also consider that fossil fuels require mining, refining, transportation (sometimes by ocean going tankers and trucks) and so on. BUT as Spectre pointed out also keep in mind that hybrids still use all of the things that regular cars do AND electrical components.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking.

Make sure to put in your report that I declared that hybrids suck, that wil convince em!

I sure will ;)

You could question their benefit over more conventional layouts like the VW Polo Bluemotion, which compares favourably in in most conditions.

-The money saved on purchase, running and disposal cost could be used on other goods with improved environmental efficiency.
-Resources used in manufacturing.
-Fuel consumption in most situations.

Yeah, diesels are the main alternative I'm going to focus on and the Polo Bluemotion seems like a good example. Anyone know of good, inexpensive diesels sold in North America?

Wicked pediaphiles say NiMH for the 2010 Prius.

Thanks.
 
If you're also gonna delve into plug-in hybrids be sure to mention where the energy is coming from, as well as how the future electrical load may be too much for our current infrastructure to handle and require rebuilding.
 
The cheapest diesel car in the US at the moment is the two-door Golf TDI at $22,354.

However, in fleet configurations, I believe you can get a stripped out F250 diesel for $19,999 or so.
 
If you're also gonna delve into plug-in hybrids be sure to mention where the energy is coming from, as well as how the future electrical load may be too much for our current infrastructure to handle and require rebuilding.

I will be discussing plug-in hybrids, thanks for the tip.

The cheapest diesel car in the US at the moment is the two-door Golf TDI at $22,354.

However, in fleet configurations, I believe you can get a stripped out F250 diesel for $19,999 or so.

Alright, thanks.
 
I'm doing a project for school, in which I have the thesis "Hybrids automobiles have a negative impact on the environment." So I'm turning to the FinalGear community for research information.

The nature of the project allows me to prove the thesis wrong, so feel free to provide information for either side of the argument. You will have to back the info up from either a reliable source or your personal experiece. Thanks in advance.

Not to be a total dick, but isn't the whole point of a research project to do the research yourself, not to start a thread on an internet forum and have other people post research?
 
Not to be a total dick, but isn't the whole point of a research project to do the research yourself, not to start a thread on an internet forum and have other people post research?

I'm doing plenty of my own research, honest, but there's a huge wealth of knowledge on these forums, and I'd like to hear what people here know as well.
 
Not to be a total dick, but isn't the whole point of a research project to do the research yourself, not to start a thread on an internet forum and have other people post research?

I don't see a problem in him asking questions, it's not like he can quote us in the paper. I see no moral difference between asking a stranger over the internet and typing keywords into a library database so you can quote another person's work. Besides in today's world it's not what you know, it's who you know, and Evel has a great resource in Finalgear.
 
Not to be a total dick, but isn't the whole point of a research project to do the research yourself, not to start a thread on an internet forum and have other people post research?
Part of research is asking those in the know is it not? Also, in case you haven't noticed, no one is giving him straight up answers that he could just copy/paste into his paper, we are mostly giving him what he should discuss. One person cannot possibly think of everything so we may point out an area that he has not thought of... That's hardly doing research for him...
 
This project will probably cause a lot of hidden environment damage than most people expect, but it will be denied by the whole class. It will probably use fewer resources, but progress at a slower pace than those of normal projects. just FYI. :lol:

Honestly, the most intriguing hyrbid technology to me is the kinetic intertia hyrbids, like the 911 GT3 RS. I also really like the way the Volt does hybrid as opposed to the Prius. Volt seems less complicated, overall a better concept.
 
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