News: Scion FR-S Sales Volume In Freefall Mode In America

NC is in the last years of its life, the enthusiast are waiting for the new lighter one. Also a convertible is less practicle so its even a more niche market.
 
LeVeL said:
How does being a convertible affect practicality on its own?
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There is no way to have a convertible that doesn't impact the already tiny trunk space.
 
LeVeL said:
How does being a convertible affect practicality on its own?
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Less trunk space (when top is open), more things to go wrong, more road noise*, easier to steal*, easier to damage the top and have crap end up in your car*, usually poor visibility with the top up, depending on where you live top down time is limited. As an example in NYC there is only maybe a month or so where I would consider driving with a top down, any other time its heat or A/C.

*soft top verts only

I think biggest miscalculation on Toyota's part was that they wanted to bring the AE86 back but because of styling and some other reasons they ended up with a car that is nowhere near as practical as the old one was. The old 86 was essentially a hot hatch with the correct end driving the car, new one is a legitimate focused sports car that will appeal to a very limited number of people.
 
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As someone who owns the car, for me it does what it needs to do. It provides me with fun to make up for the hopelessly slow and boring Toronto commute. Its practical enough for my purposes where I can make use of the rear seats. However I will note that this car does fill only a specific niche. Its definitely not for everyone. I personally wanted a car that was inexpensive, light weight, RWD, manual transmission, limited slip differential and capable of seating at least 4. This car fills that. It seems this car only sells well in certain places, I do see a lot in the Toronto area and its only these cars and the Genesis coupes that I see being used as DDs even in winter.

As far as I can tell regarding its slow sales, other than it being rather niche, Toyota has been horrible when it comes to updating any of its sports cars. The changes for instance from a 2013-2014 unit to a supposedly updated 2015 make absolutely no difference to any owner. Basically a minor suspension tweak, shark fin antennae and less horrible exhaust tips...that's not a real update. Toyota claimed at the beginning this car would be updated substantially over time...we're in year 4 and the car is still essentially the same with no real changes in sight.
 
GM_IV said:
As far as I can tell regarding its slow sales, other than it being rather niche, Toyota has been horrible when it comes to updating any of its sports cars. The changes for instance from a 2013-2014 unit to a supposedly updated 2015 make absolutely no difference to any owner. Basically a minor suspension tweak, shark fin antennae and less horrible exhaust tips...that's not a real update. Toyota claimed at the beginning this car would be updated substantially over time...we're in year 4 and the car is still essentially the same with no real changes in sight.
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Toyota is doing this to the entire Scion product line, also. When it was launched, they said that they would be constantly changing the models, and also wouldn't repeat any models when they released new vehicles. Since then, they have released a new XB, a new TC, replace the XA with the XD which is basically a small XB...and then finally the FR-S which is the first "interesting" car since they launched the XB in...what...2004?
 
Yeah the car can feel sporty to drive, but it's sloooow. 7.6 seconds to 100kmh is hardly a sports car pace, when a sportier diesel hatchback will smoke you at the lights.
 
pepitko said:
Yeah the car can feel sporty to drive, but it's sloooow. 7.6 seconds to 100kmh is hardly a sports car pace, when a sportier diesel hatchback will smoke you at the lights.
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Since when does acceleration make or break a sports car?
 
LeVeL said:
Since when does acceleration make or break a sports car?
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Since the established competition (Miata) is about one second faster to 60. Or even faster.

Even the MGB had to have a power bump when the I4 became ludicrously uncompetitive - see the MGB V8 and the RV8.
 
GM_IV said:
As someone who owns the car, for me it does what it needs to do. It provides me with fun to make up for the hopelessly slow and boring Toronto commute. Its practical enough for my purposes where I can make use of the rear seats. However I will note that this car does fill only a specific niche. Its definitely not for everyone. I personally wanted a car that was inexpensive, light weight, RWD, manual transmission, limited slip differential and capable of seating at least 4. This car fills that. It seems this car only sells well in certain places, I do see a lot in the Toronto area and its only these cars and the Genesis coupes that I see being used as DDs even in winter.
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I see quite a few of them here as well but NYC is a very unique market when it comes to cars because you basically don't need one.

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LeVeL said:
Since when does acceleration make or break a sports car?
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A good sports car needs to be balanced, it can't be a power monster that can't turn but by the same token it can't be something that is slightly faster than a Camry either.
 
Yeah but you know I have no idea what the 0-60 time is in my MX5 nor do I care. What I do are about is the balance of the thing and the sensations it delivers when I am behind the wheel, top up or top down. There will always be someone with a faster car for those of us who live in the real world but as long as performance is adequate then you can get the most out of pretty much anything.
 
LeVeL said:
Since when does acceleration make or break a sports car?
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I'm not saying it needs 400hp and sub 5 seconds to 100kmh, but when run of the mill family sedans are faster, it doesn't make it a desirable sports car.
 
MWF said:
Yeah but you know I have no idea what the 0-60 time is in my MX5 nor do I care. What I do are about is the balance of the thing and the sensations it delivers when I am behind the wheel, top up or top down. There will always be someone with a faster car for those of us who live in the real world but as long as performance is adequate then you can get the most out of pretty much anything.
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Oh I'm not worried about a faster car, yes there is always a faster car, I'm talking about the fun of acceleration that you can only get with decent power.

However since we are talking about sales here the thing to remember is demographics. We have the general car buying demographic, a certain subset of those people are going to be sports car buyers, out of those an even smaller subset will want a small RWD coupe/hatch/vert*, out of that already small subset there is an even smaller subset that will not mind the lack of power. So the market is limited to begin with and it would help if the model range was slightly expanded, like say a convertible option and possibly a turbo option, after all the WRX uses same exact engine just with a snail on it....
 
Snails are available aftermarket. In fact I think the kits were on the market before the damn car!
 
narf said:
CrzRsn said:
turbo convertible AWD hybrid diesel BRZ
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:nod: Would consider such a thing some day.
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ftfy :lol:

Thanatos said:
NC is in the last years of its life, the enthusiast are waiting for the new lighter one. Also a convertible is less practicle so its even a more niche market.
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Yep, just like the 2014 F150 and Mustang saw sales drops because people were waiting for the new ones. Will be interesting to see if sales pick up again when the ND hits dealers.
 
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Nah they will all wait for the FIAT version.
 
MWF said:
Snails are available aftermarket. In fact I think the kits were on the market before the damn car!
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That means extra cost, car downtime, possible issues with the engine down the line, voided warranty. Also makes little sense to buy a new car if you are going to do heavy modification to it (I'd consider adding FI as heavy mod). It also limits the market, considering that people how mod their cars are a subset of the general "gearhead" community.
 
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MWF said:
Snails are available aftermarket. In fact I think the kits were on the market before the damn car!
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To be honest, that'd make it ~40k on mainland Europe, and I'd rather spend that on a Z4M or E92 M3 or some kind of sports car that's a level above.. :) And still have a lot left over. And the Z4 is bascially the same as the 86 when it comes to balance, minus two seats.
 
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