Sniff Strikes Back....

Seriously, have you even read ANY of my posts? I said WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS, theres TWO groups on FG. Mind you, I did say the negative group was more active, and to prove that look no further than the thread on the front page marked "Thoughts on Season 18" where someone who says they liked season 18 is ahoited down. One poster even remarked that TG "died after series 12". Really? Ok.

From what I could see, reading the comments on each episode as it aired, it seemed that the majority of the folks here liked series 18. Not just in comparison with the Indian special but over-all. Even the few posts in the "Thoughts on Season 18" thread seemed to be more positive than negative. If you look at the poll results for most of the eps, they're averaging between 7-9, with leanings toward 8 & 9. Episode 18-3 looks to have the lowest overall rating, not surprising, since it seems most people weren't thrilled with the Sweeney segment.

Just to make sure, is this the "Thoughts on Season 18" thread you were referring to?

http://forums.finalgear.com/top-gear/a-thought-on-series-18-a-52725/

Not quite seeing where you're getting that there is an overwhelming negativity towards series 18.
 
I don't quite know what to make of all this . There seems to be an agression here when people don't agree with each other.
The apparent lack of respect for one another here saddens me a little if I'm honest.
Ok, so disagree but is it necessary to resort to insult and put downs? Over the past months I've seen people mocked because of their size and appearance, I've seen others use the term "fanboyz or fangirlz" for those who aren't all that critical of the show. I've seen a lot of anger as well.

And if not attacking others and resorting to put downs and other aggressive behaviours makes me a "fangirl" then I wear that tag with pride. I rarely post here because I I don't relish the prospect of being on the receiving end but honestly, it's not as if we're talking facts. It's OPINIONS people and perhaps just perhaps it would be nice to be able to express them without the fear of being jumped on by others. And this goes for both sides of the debate.

Oh and before anyone tells me that's life and deal with it..I do. I just choose to try and avoid it during my recreational time if possible. I suspect I may not be alone in this.

OH and for the record. I thought Porter's column was a hoot and a half.
 
I don't quite know what to make of all this. There seems to be an agression here when people don't agree with each other.
The apparent lack of respect for one another here saddens me a little if I'm honest.

Your surprised attitude is what makes this place special. Here, civil discourse is more the rule than the exception. When it breaks down, it's all the more apparent. There are far more toxic places among the Internets than here; try any comment thread in the Religion section of CNN. You want aggression, it's there in spades.

Ok, so disagree but is it necessary to resort to insult and put downs?

I hate to tell you this, but sometimes it is.

Over the past months I've seen people mocked because of their size and appearance,

Now I remember that thread, Mouse. People were not being mocked here because of their size and appearance. It originated out of an aside made at a TG taping by an FGer. Then a n00b wandered in and took umbrage that such a remark should even be made. When we didn't bow before the altar of PC, with MWF making a cogent remark regarding people jeopardizing one's health due to excess weight, the n00b's brother/sockpuppet came in and started complaining, making things worse. We told them to read everything in context and tone things down and let it go. They didn't. They both got banned.

I've seen others use the term "fanboyz or fangirlz" for those who aren't all that critical of the show.

In the vast majority of cases, when those terms are used, it's done to designate those who are uncritical of the show to the point where they go off against anyone who says anything that can remotely be construed as critical. It isn't used willy-nilly.

I've seen a lot of anger as well.

The definition of "anger" differs from person to person. What you see as "anger" might not be what others do.

And if not attacking others and resorting to put downs and other aggressive behaviours makes me a "fangirl" then I wear that tag with pride.

No, that doesn't make you a fangirl. The secret shrine to Richard that you keep in your allotment shed, however...

I rarely post here because I don't relish the prospect of being on the receiving end but honestly, it's not as if we're talking facts. It's OPINIONS people and perhaps just perhaps it would be nice to be able to express them without the fear of being jumped on by others. And this goes for both sides of the debate.

The fact is that some people don't know how to conduct themselves in a civil debate. I blame the decline in the educational system. The old Trivium included Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric, all of which tend to be on minimal display in a great many of these debates. In fact, a lot of people take offense when you try to use them, as I've discovered. It would have been a lot better for discourse if the Internet had been around during the Scholastic era.

Oh and before anyone tells me that's life and deal with it..I do. I just choose to try and avoid it during my recreational time if possible. I suspect I may not be alone in this.

It would be nice if real life could be firewalled from the Internet, wouldn't it? It would be nice if I had a unit that could frighten mares too.

Oh and for the record. I thought Porter's column was a hoot and a half.

I would have felt that way if he'd written it during Season 14 and he'd toned it down slightly. As it was, he referenced an out-of-date stereotype that, in general, is very rare. Given his position, you have to wonder whether or not such a stereotype is groupthink at the TG office, which is a sign of a significant disconnect between the content creators and the fans. That's what's worrying a lot of people right now.
 
It's quite ironic that Sniff has ran out of ideas quite some time ago and isn't as funny as it used to be in the early days. I used to hate it, but now that it's shit, I love it! Bring on issue #237467823645!
 
Ok, so disagree but is it necessary to resort to insult and put downs? Over the past months I've seen people mocked because of their size and appearance, I've seen others use the term "fanboyz or fangirlz" for those who aren't all that critical of the show.
Spie did a good job explaining, but I feel the need to chime in as well. I don't necessarily use the term "fanboy/fangirl" as an insult. It's just something I use to identify a certain type of fan, as there are different levels of fandom in all things. You have the more casual fans, who love the show but don't feel the need to go into much detail in discussing it. Then you have fans who are bit more obsessed and nit-pick the show and over-analyze it in their discussions. And then you have the fanboy/girl types, the bleeding heart fans who worship the show and the people in it, who shed tears about getting the presenters autographs, and get angry and upset anytime someone says anything negative or critical.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with loving something or someone that much, but you should be able to recognize your own lack of rational thought. I, for one, know that I over-analyze TopGear too much and in the end it's just a pokey motoring program from England and it really doesn't matter that much. But I love the show and I enjoy these in-depth discussions, so I keep at it.
 
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Now I remember that thread, Mouse. People were not being mocked here because of their size and appearance. It originated out of an aside made at a TG taping by an FGer. Then a n00b wandered in and took umbrage that such a remark should even be made. When we didn't bow before the altar of PC, with MWF making a cogent remark regarding people jeopardizing one's health due to excess weight, the n00b's brother/sockpuppet came in and started complaining, making things worse. We told them to read everything in context and tone things down and let it go. They didn't. They both got banned.

That nOOb I think you'll find was the person about whom the derogatory comments were made. And I'm sorry, but those comments were cruel and the indvidual was shattered when they read them.

I have waged a constant battle with my weight for many many years. I have been on the receiving end of thoughtless and cruel comments and they hurt deeply. So I can't accept that explanation. that individual did nothing to deserve the derision.

As for "fanboyz and fangirlz.. They are uncritical and adore the show no matter what. And? Everyone deserves some respect. And I to be totally honest I think there's a lack of it in this forum quite frequently.

Now if you'll excuse me. I'm in a bad mood as I've had a bad few days, so I'll take myself off elsewhere now before I say something I might regret.
 
I don't quite know what to make of all this . There seems to be an agression here when people don't agree with each other.
The apparent lack of respect for one another here saddens me a little if I'm honest.
Ok, so disagree but is it necessary to resort to insult and put downs? Over the past months I've seen people mocked because of their size and appearance, I've seen others use the term "fanboyz or fangirlz" for those who aren't all that critical of the show. I've seen a lot of anger as well.
This. Is there something in the water?

I just choose to try and avoid it during my recreational time if possible. I suspect I may not be alone in this.
Indeed, and since I choose to spend some of my recreational time here, it kinda makes me sad.

For the record, I didn't think it was that funny. The premise was great. Execution, not so much. I think if you're going to write something like that you really can't pull any punches and I think some were. Lessened it, in my eyes.

Also, the username should have been Captainsloawesome.
 
I have waged a constant battle with my weight for many many years. I have been on the receiving end of thoughtless and cruel comments and they hurt deeply. So I can't accept that explanation. that individual did nothing to deserve the derision.

And? I only recently quit smoking and have lived with the jibes and snarky comments for years and all my way through school (single sex) I had to put up with all the shit/faggot jibes that came from being a skinny kid who was crap at sports and who really enjoyed acting and singing.

I will reiterate my previous point that a significant percentage (not all by any means) are obese either as a result of bad parenting and/or poor like/nutrition decisions but unlike smokers and drinkers who, via the tax system in this country, help to pay towards their palliative care those who are obese for whatever reason do not because food (unless from a restaurant where it incurs a mere 20% in VAT) is not taxed. At the same time while it is perfectly acceptable to makes smokers social pariahs, set so-called "safe" (and totally arbitrary) drinking limits while encouraging GPs to quiz every single patient on their drinking habits and demand they seek help if they drift just a whisker over, if one opens one's mouth to make similar comments about the overweight then one is being cruel and insensitive.

Let's have a level playing field and stop this bleating about hurt feelings, being "offended" by jokes and start to suck it up because that's life!
 
Right..Okay...
This is a serious question MWF - do you believe that posting an insult/joke about someone on a forum that is accessible worldwide is the same as having a quiet insult/joke at someones's expense with your mate down the pub? I am sure that we are all probably guilty of the latter at times, not so about the former though.
 
Right..Okay...
This is a serious question MWF - do you believe that posting an insult/joke about someone on a forum that is accessible worldwide is the same as having a quiet insult/joke at someones's expense with your mate down the pub? I am sure that we are all probably guilty of the latter at times, not so about the former though.

I'll say the same to you as Dr Grip said to katwalk not that long ago when she was griping about how people reacted to things she posted and you covered the very same answer in your question. This is a forum that is accessible worldwide. You can have no control over how people react to the things you post - if that's what you want to do then start a blog and disable comments - and if you can't handle what other random strangers the world over may post then I would strongly suggest you avoid forums altogether.

You also have to bear in mind that at no point IIRC have I ever referred to anybody by name/gender or even an accurate enough description for anyone's identity to have been proven without doubt. There are three other people on this earth, only one of whom is a member of FG, who know for certain who that person was that I mentioned last year so it's quite possible that the sock-puppet et al who waded into the debate had simply jumped to totally the wrong conclusions.

Just to set the record straight the person to whom I referred previously was not mentioned because of their size (which was merely used for descriptive purposes) but because my first impression of them was of someone who was more than a little unhinged, just a touch scary/sinister and more than a little creepy. Nothing I have seen or heard of this individual has done anything to change that fact and a number of people who are also acquainted with said person have agreed with me. I have also subsequently met a number of members of this and related forums, some of whom have been of similar build if not considerably larger and all have been happy, cheerful, normal and pleasant people. Do I think it would an idea for them to do their best to get healthier? Yes. Do I imagine they want the same thing? I would sincerely hope so.

A stated above and previously elsewhere my gripe is not with the obese per se, it's the different rules that apply within society thus:

You smoke? You are a filthy stinking individual who will die from cancer or heart disease, the amount you pay in related tax to help fund the NHS notwithstanding.

You drink more than the arbitrary amount plucked from the air? You are a sad loser who will die of liver disease, the amount you pay in tax notwithstanding.

You drive a car? You pollute the planet, cause global warming and one day you will have an accident requiring the emergency services and hospital care. The amount you pay in road tax, insurance premium tax, fuel tax, congestion charge, road tolls, VAT on all of the above and the purchase price of the vehicle notwithstanding.

You eat too much? In spite of the fact that you are at vastly increased risk of cancers, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, stroke etc etc and that rising levels of obesity in this country mean that instead of paying for crucial research, more beds, better equipment and new drug treatments hospitals are having to spend percentages of their already stretched budgets on oversized beds, trolleys, hoists and operating tables as well as huge amounts on largely preventable diseases because you couldn't be bothered to exercise or learn to cook a healthy stir-fry once in a while nobody is allowed to say anything because it might hurt your feelings in spite of the fact that the only thing you funded was your own waistline. And as for those who have eaten themselves into a Disability Living Allowance? Don't get me started. :mad:

I'm not some far-right nutcase, far from it, I believe as far as possible in live and let live as long as your choices are not infringing on anyone else. Want to marry your same-sex cousin? Go ahead. Want 3 wives? Sure. Want to worship Deity X? Fine by me as long as you don't believe your deity wants you to kill me because I have a different deity or none at all or my skin is a different colour. Want to eat cows or not eat cows? So what? Think me driving my car drowns polar bears? Sure, believe what you want but stop taxing the shit out of me until you can prove it unequivocally.

Quite frankly they take a little bit more every year those bastards and I'm as sick to the back teeth of it as you are but as I said before let's have a level-fucking-playing field. If the Government is going to keep telling me what to do (I'm not talking about the existing framework of the law here) while pandering to others then I am going to tell them and anyone else who joins in to fuck off.
 
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That nOOb I think you'll find was the person about whom the derogatory comments were made.

It wasn't. The n00b was a sixteen-year-old who was upset that someone dared make a remark about someone being fat in a manner that she deemed derogatory to herself and any other fatties around. You came in late on that one, unfortunately.

And I'm sorry, but those comments were cruel and the indvidual was shattered when they read them.

Boo hoo. I was fat until after I graduated from college. Ended up joining the Army, dropped weight in Basic Training, and have kept it off for the twenty years I've been out. I have no sympathy for fatties.

As for "fanboyz and fangirlz.. They are uncritical and adore the show no matter what. And? Everyone deserves some respect. And I to be totally honest I think there's a lack of it in this forum quite frequently.

You have to earn respect. And in my mind, you don't earn it by behaving like a drooling fanboy.
 
Boo hoo. I was fat until after I graduated from college. Ended up joining the Army, dropped weight in Basic Training, and have kept it off for the twenty years I've been out. I have no sympathy for fatties.

Hence the Honda Fit Sport? :drums:

Perhaps we could combat rising levels of obesity in Ukania by adopting the right kind of names for cars?

The VW Polomintsbutonlythesugarfreeones? Ford Fiestatimebutstayawayfromthedipsandsticktothesalad? BMW 540caloriesareallyouareallowedforlunch?
 
That explains why they brought back the MG Thin F*cker, though in abbreviated form.
 
I didn't think it was particularly funny but I get the message behind it. I think some people do enjoy criticising for the sake of criticising, like I think some people can be utterly blind to flaws because they want to be. I think there's room for balance, there's room for the nOOb's who want to have their five minute rant and then vanish again, there's room for the hardcore fans who know what brand of toothpaste Hammond uses (although why you would want to know that, I don't know.) There's room for the people who cannot sleep without letting the world know what they think of an episode and then there's everyone in between. With so many different personalities and opinions it's obvious there are going to be clashes and verbal sparring occasionally. So long as after it's done and things are dropped people can go on as normal and don't hold grudges that's what matters, surely? I've had some arguments with people on here but when those arguments are done then I don't think badly of them or flounce off because everyone has their own opinion and some people are always going to be better at explaining those than others. Same in life. Most of my real life arguments end in a hug because I am useless at being angry with people.

I think everyone has their own sensitivities about certain issues. Fat people think everyone is making fun of fat people and sometimes find it hard to have a sense of humour about it (I'll admit that I do this sometimes.) Smokers think everyone is against smokers and get all ragey and I pay my taxes, rawr. Drinkers think the same, etc, etc, etc. Most people have their vices and issues and it's always going to hurt when people make comments and sometimes even people with a sense of humour can have a failure of it when they feel people are getting personal.

I'll admit that I sometimes get sensitive about comments made about people's weight, especially mine. When it really comes down to it it's no one else's business. That applies to smoking and alcohol and drugs. We could all complain about heroin addicts getting DLA and being treated in hospital when they OD, or about alcoholics having to be stitched up over and over again because they've fallen over drunk. Same with fat people... why should a person who has always kept control of their weight pay for someone to have their hip replaced because they were too heavy? I do get it. But seriously do people actually think that (and I can only talk about fat people here because I'm one of them) we haven't tried to lose weight? That they don't want to do it differently? There are going to be people who will say just eat a salad and do some exercise but that doesn't address the complex issues people have with food. If they could do that they would have done it already. Nobody tells anorexics to just eat a burger. It is an issue that's about more than food. Quite often it's a way of self-harming, it's an emotional crutch, it's a comfort. It has very little to do with the actual food (for some people.) I suppose what I'm saying is that everyone has their issues and sensitivities and no one is right or wrong with their vices. It would just be nice if people were a bit kinder to each other. I know that's naive and all peace crisps and rainbows but there you go. I do live in the real world and I do have people making fun of me on a regular basis - prisoners don't tend to sugarcoat their insults - so I can predict what the outcome of this post is going to be but...

:hug:
 
Suggsy, noone is criticising you for your size and shape. I know you are doing our best to get in trim and I applaud you for that, as well as happening to think you are a quite brilliant if a little nutty personage. As it so happens my two best friends as well as one of my favourite FGers are all carrying more weight that is healthy for any of them and sure I'd like them to see them drop a few pounds here and there because I care about them but it doesn't affect my opinion of them as people one iota.

What I object to is special treatment for those with weight issues, whether that be obesity or anorexia there seems to be this taboo that means we are expected to tiptoe around them and avoid mentioning the issue.

Go to your GP with a cough? Quit smoking.
Go with too many headaches and bloodshot eyes? You drink too much. Get an LFT and cut down.
Trackmarks on your arm? You're a pathetic smackhead who is going to die anyway so why should we help you?
Go breathless and double your ideal BMI? There, there dear let's get you booked in with an equally obese nurse who'll patronise you and claim to understand your issues and hand you a Kleenex while you sob uncontrollably before stopping off on the way home for a kebab and a tub of Ben n Jerry's to console yourself. (I speak in general terms and not at anyone here or elsewhere.)

They are all crutches and/or inherrent weaknesses but woe betide you if you look fantastic and use one of them. I don't care what places you in a group or a minority frankly. Your deity, skin, orientation, politics, gender, weight, lifestyle choices etc matter not a jot to me but let's ditch this "positive discrimination" and "some are more equal than others" equality.
 
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I seemed to have touched a nerve there MWF, sorry about that! :(

You didn't really answer my question but I take it from the rant that the answer is 'Yes'.
 
Not a nerve as such.

Short answer - I'll call it as I see it regardless.
 
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