Snow = Drifting (Techniques)

^ Thank you. I still contend that you couldn't put me into a car that I wouldn't enjoy driving.

i don't like driving trucks, vans, SUVs, ...everything in which you can't do a quick shift, or a sharp turn-in starts to annoy me within the hour
 
i don't like driving trucks, vans, SUVs, ...everything in which you can't do a quick shift, or a sharp turn-in starts to annoy me within the hour
+1 completely agree!
There is one thing that amazed me last year at work though:
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the Ford Transit 350tdci with drop sides ..even with 2tons of industrial oil i flew across many roundabouts etc without even tipping it ,without load it was a very roadholding vehicle with even some small powerslides in it when pushing hard.
Ok , it isn't a sportscar or even has any real performance, but eversince i've driven it , i knew why Sabine Schmitz went down the nurburg within 10mins 8secs! :D
 
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It is most definitely possible and very fun to do in a FWD car and anyone who says other wise don't know TF they are talking about lol.

Get a nice little feathering going, turn wheel and dump clutch don't even really need the ebrake unless you really want to whip the back out and usually will need more speed to work right.

We got a little snow in Texas today and got my fwd fiat out in the parking lot and tore it up. ???
 
is that not what RWD is doing?
 
Once you get used to having traction, FWD and RWD are both shit in snow. :p
Just experienced my first snowy commute with an AWD car and you're absolutely correct. I don't think I'll ever go back to 2WD in a daily driver.
 
Just experienced my first snowy commute with an AWD car and you're absolutely correct. I don't think I'll ever go back to 2WD in a daily driver.
I been saying this here for fucking years and I got a bunch of people yelling at me to just get snow tires...

Also 4WD>AWD, so much more predictable.
 
I've driven all sorts of combinations of drivetrains and tires. In general, I'd rather have a 2WD car on snow tires than an AWD car on all-seasons, but it still depends. 2WD with an LSD is pretty good, but with an open diff it's pretty bad. Bad AWD systems are always going to be marginal.

Good AWD on snow tires is king - it's hard to tell you're driving through snow and ice and it's not a sunny warm day in our Jeep :cool: The Fusion definitely needs snow tires but dynamically it's already a different experience than FWD, since the throttle isn't useless.
 
Yeah, i’m always assuming proper winter tires in any discussion like this. AWD helps you going but it doesn’t stop the car any better.

And there are lots of different AWD systems so I wouldn’t say that 4WD > AWD just like that. For example, a first gen Cayenne is programmed to keep the RWD bias even when the tail kicks out, while the equivalent Touareg locks the center diff. Same hardware.

My car is FWD bias so it takes a bootful of pedal to get the tail out, but it’s got a locking rear diff so it’s actually surprisingly happy to go sideways even with ESP engaged. Much more so than you’d expect for a diesel barge tailored for families and caravanners.
 
And there are lots of different AWD systems so I wouldn’t say that 4WD > AWD just like that.
I would, all AWD systems have one thing in common - they all attempt to maximize traction by shuffling torque around, which means at any given point they can behave more like FWD, 4WD or RWD depending on what the computer decides. 4WD always behaves exactly the same because the split will always be 50:50 so it’s extremely predictable.
 
You would be fine with locked 4WD if you are likely to experience slip but use that on a normal road and you will make the transmission very unhappy or break something. My Series III would get very unhappy after a short time in 4-Hi on tarmac, it didn't want to change gear due to the extra load.

Smart centre diff locks are a nice feature, a company I know makes an LSD replacement for the centre diffs in traditional Land Rover transfer boxes too.
 
You would be fine with locked 4WD if you are likely to experience slip but use that on a normal road and you will make the transmission very unhappy or break something. My Series III would get very unhappy after a short time in 4-Hi on tarmac, it didn't want to change gear due to the extra load.

Smart centre diff locks are a nice feature, a company I know makes an LSD replacement for the centre diffs in traditional Land Rover transfer boxes too.

I can confirm, a 1994 Ford Bronco and 2001 Jeep Cherokee in 4hi is great fun in a disused parking lot.
 
Yeah dry tarmac and 4WD don’t mix well but snow or even heavy rains and it’s totally fine.

You can also power slide it pretty easily ;)

It also helps that you can engage/disengage the lock at up to 50mph in my car
 
4WD in my brain is a japanese-style selectable 2WD/4WD system with no center diff.

I would prefer having an open center diff that locks on command or when needed, but with power always going to both axles.
 
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