Spectator killed and several others injured at VLN race at the 'Ring

D-Fence

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As evil as this sounds - I think a massive crash was inevitable in VLN. I remember watching VLN in 2003 and it was a fast race series already but with a ton of privateers in "almost roadcars". But over the last 10 years VLN has become a massive battleground for manufacturers and the speeds have gone crazy. The privateers with their wacky little cars are almost gone and the speeds are getting dangerous for the Nordschleife again. There was a reason Formula 1 and DTM left the Nordschleife - the track is unsafe for high speed cars. And yes, with all that FIA protection trying to improve it, there is still a slim chance that some events occur like this one where it just plays out in such a way that all the protection equipment fails.
And - to be honest - Touristenfahrten are heading down a dangerous way too, the amount of hardcore track-prepped ringtools with drivers who are just watching their stopwatch and GoPro are not making the Ring any safer.
I feel very sorry for the relatives of the deceased and also for the driver and engineers, who now have to daily ask themselves if this was their fault. But maybe this is a wakeup call for the "speed craze" at the Ring right now...


And here is the video, if anyone cares. Le Mans all over.


Spoiler Text: (Click here to toggle display)

 
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vikiradTG2007

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My sympathies to everyone affected by this crash. Horrible to see someone go to indulge their passion in motorsport by watching a race from trackside and never coming back. :( And Jann Mardenborough in that Nissan - blameless and just a complete passenger once that car left the ground. Dreadful way to end his first Nordschleife experience.
 

D-Fence

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I disagree with blameless!

He did his first Nordschleife race in a GT3 car. The Nordschleife qualifying course he did for his license was in a SWIFT. The more seasoned "fast" drivers all say they dip brakes to keep nose down on GT3 cars, something he clearly hasn't done.

Little experience + way too fast car = this
 

Ilpav

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This was a GT Academy car and I think it was last year when the game's creator Kazunori Yamauchi was racing a GT-R at the Nurburgring 24-hours and noticed that the car generated a bit of lift at high speed. He actually went into the game to try different settings on the same car to fix it and then applied it to the real car. I don't know if this was the same sort of car but those changes might've prevented this.
 

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The real problem is the fence behind the fence. Whose brilliant idea was that? That's the guy who's at fault here. Obviously people are gonna hop that small fence, now they're trapped when a car comes flying at them.
 

Pininfarina_

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The real problem is the fence behind the fence. Whose brilliant idea was that? That's the guy who's at fault here. Obviously people are gonna hop that small fence, now they're trapped when a car comes flying at them.
Is that sarcastic? Anyway it was literally worst case scenario for the spectators there. What a god damn shame.
 

D-Fence

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Good. Only right choice to make right now.

And the GT-R was KNOWN to not evenly lift all fours but completely pull wheelies!

 

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Another video...

Spoiler Text: (Click here to toggle display)

By the way, I hate it how the original uploader of the video that's been posted by D-Fence didn't watermark it and now everyone is stealing it for views. Great.

I don't really know what to say now as I was there with a couple of friends. I was with one friend at Quiddelbacher H?he as suddenly the track was closed, a couple of ambulances rushed by. Another friend of mine called me saying that there was a crash at Flugplatz and it looked (quote) like Dresden '45. Where we were there was a guy punching his car's roof with his fist screaming "fuck fuck fuck". We knew it was serious right away.
I wanted to go Flugplatz, ten minutes later and I would've been there and witness this awful crash yesterday.

I'm gonna post more thoughts after I've sorted myself out...

Btw D-Fence, did you wrote the same in german on a Facebook site somewhere? I remember reading what you wrote here... :p

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The real problem is the fence behind the fence. Whose brilliant idea was that? That's the guy who's at fault here. Obviously people are gonna hop that small fence, now they're trapped when a car comes flying at them.
Wow, you really know a lot about how the fence system works and who can go where at the Ring, don't you? Please, after this fatal incident, just don't say anything if you're just speculating. Nobody just "hops" a fence at the Ring... Please, just leave it... smh
 
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D-Fence

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Another video...

Btw D-Fence, did you wrote the same in german on a Facebook site somewhere? I remember reading what you wrote here... :p

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Wow, you really know a lot about how the fence system works and who can go where at the Ring, don't you? Please, after this fatal incident, just don't say anything if you're just speculating. Nobody just "hops" a fence at the Ring... Please, just leave it... smh


Yes I did :)


Also, yes, people do hop the fences....sadly. Sometimes even barriers during Touri drives.

http://www.stelen-foto.de/images/Pics/touri/20130714-DSC_1726.JPG
 

Mitchi

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Of course they do, but it doesn't last long. At least when I've seen it personally marshalls got them back. :)

It's just that what he wrote is wrong for that case as no one was in front of that first fence except for people who where allowed to, photographers and marshalls. But it doesn't matter for this case since the car went through both fences... :(
 

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The car landed between both fences. And I don't know what you guys are talking about saying that only photographers and whatever were between the fences, you can clearly see MANY folding chairs lined up in there in the video. People were clearly trapped.

It's not like this is the first time a car has flipped over at a track before, so banning a whole class of cars is just stupid - looks like it's nothing more than a good way to put the blame of that death on someone else.
 

Mitchi

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Have you been there? Have you ever been to the Ring? I have, many times, and was there a couple of hundred meters away from where it happend. Yes, the car did land in between the two fences. But it went through both of them, basically rolling back in the space between both.

I think you have no clue how the fence system at the Ring work and what kind of fences they are... apparently you didn't inform yourself in anyway but the video how the crash went down.

Anyway, for those who are voyeuristically interested in the aftermath, a couple of pictures, spoilered for obvious reasons.


Spoiler Text: (Click here to toggle display)




The only thing that's left from the Nissan was the chassis itself and the engine block. Everything else really was Dresden '45...
 

Hazardous

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Have you been there? Have you ever been to the Ring? I have, many times, and was there a couple of hundred meters away from where it happend. Yes, the car did land in between the two fences. But it went through both of them, basically rolling back in the space between both.

I think you have no clue how the fence system at the Ring work and what kind of fences they are... apparently you didn't inform yourself in anyway but the video how the crash went down.
You are more than welcome to educate those of us who have never been there as spectators, then.

I don't want to sound harsh or argue against what you are saying, but it would be more helpful if you, regular visitor who knows how things work, would give the right information rather than just point out that people are wrong. At least I am curious as to how it all works, because having two fences does seem odd to me, too.
 

Mitchi

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You are more than welcome to educate those of us who have never been there as spectators, then.

I don't want to sound harsh or argue against what you are saying, but it would be more helpful if you, regular visitor who knows how things work, would give the right information rather than just point out that people are wrong. At least I am curious as to how it all works, because having two fences does seem odd to me, too.
I'm harsh towards people who just write before informing themselves, that's why I answer in the same way. Sounds stupid, but that's just how I am.

Google FIA fence.
 

GraemeH

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Was the victim confirmed? Early reports said an 8 year old American boy, later someone said 44 year old German man.

If someone is really desperate to cast blame around, I have to point out that directly down-range of the launching ramp of Flugplatz is one of the places I'd specifically not spectate, regardless of how beefy the fences were. Cars have been doing that there for deacades. Spectators sort of have to accept they should employ discretion in where they position themselves at races, all the more-so at a track with famously little run-off and high speeds.
 

jack_christie

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I'm harsh towards people who just write before informing themselves, that's why I answer in the same way. Sounds stupid, but that's just how I am.

Google FIA fence.
Bit silly to blame a driver for what is probably an Nissan GTR / FIA aerodynamic flaw and poor run off area. Even if the driver makes a mistake the track design and car performance shouldn't put spectators at risk.

If that was a well run rally stage, a lot of those spectators wouldn't have been allowed in the danger areas.

During the N24 2011, two cars went over the barriers, one at Pflanzgarten and I'm not sure where the other one went over. Last year in the March VLN Test, the Rowe SLS went over the barriers. Did they learn anything that time? How many other cars have gone over the barriers, and how many have gone over both the fence in recent years.

The comments on twitter by Taki Inoue were absolutely sickening.
 
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bone

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The comments on twitter by Taki Inoue were absolutely sickening.
he realised so himself, applogised and deleted the tweets
(haven't actually seen them, so have no idea what he wrote)
 

Mitchi

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Bit silly to blame a driver for what is probably an Nissan GTR / FIA aerodynamic flaw and poor run off area. Even if the driver makes a mistake the track design and car performance shouldn't put spectators at risk.

If that was a well run rally stage, a lot of those spectators wouldn't have been allowed in the danger areas.

During the N24 2011, two cars went over the barriers, one at Pflanzgarten and I'm not sure where the other one went over. Last year in the March VLN Test, the Rowe SLS went over the barriers. Did they learn anything that time? How many other cars have gone over the barriers, and how many have gone over both the fence in recent years.

The comments on twitter by Taki Inoue were absolutely sickening.
Where did I blame the driver? In my eyes, Jann Mardenborough is the least to blame?
They should've already done something when the SLS had the crash, last year. Hell, Flugplatz has always been a point of tense crashes (VLN 2006, anyone?). It was never as safe as it should be. Probably should build it now like Pflanzgarten 1 with a bit of gravel and more run-off.

Meanwhile, new video. Toughest so far.

Spoiler Text: (Click here to toggle display)

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he realised so himself, applogised and deleted the tweets
(haven't actually seen them, so have no idea what he wrote)
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/taki-inoue-is-a-dick-1694262710
 
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