Stupid Driver Stories

I prefer that people don't talk to me much when I'm driving through really bad conditions like freezing rain at night or a bad snowstorm. Of course, that's a matter of me staying 100% focused so I can keep everybody safe, not being an anti-social douchebag. :)

But geez, yeah, that'd be pretty f'ing awkward if some dude demanded that people follow his rules when he's a passenger.

It'd be one thing if bad conditions were involved. It'd also be quite anothjer if it weren't just "no talking to the driver" - it's "NO DOING ANYTHING EXCEPT SITTING QUIETLY. PERIOD. LOOK OUT THE WINDOWS AT THE IDYLLIC MIDSUMMER DAY, DRIVING IS TOO DIFFICULT TO HAVE ANY DISTRACTIONS".

If you can't handle a conversation, you shouldn't have your driver's license. Hell, during my driver's test I was required to talk and explain my way through the thing (simple as it was) and during my training the instructor and I prettymuch never shut up.
 
That's ok, but they are dangerous for me too. We are having a problems here because roads are built to be slow and narrow and dangerous on purpose.

They put sharp bends, they put blocks of concrete in the middle of the road, they put chicanes, they narrow the streets down so you HAVE to slow down, and if you go too fast you crash, but how is that in the name of road safety?
These obstacles force people to pay attention and therefore increase road safety. And roads are not for cars only, so at least in town it's prudent to ensure people drive slowly.
On motorways it's the other way around: long drives, wide roads, no oncoming traffic, no corners to speak of: cruising along at 100 kph in low traffic makes you fall asleep. Therefore German Autobahns are among the safest roads on this planet.
 
These obstacles force people to pay attention and therefore increase road safety. And roads are not for cars only, so at least in town it's prudent to ensure people drive slowly.

If someone is not paying attention, all this trickery will simply make his/her car drve awkwardly, or in the wrong lane, or going as fast as if the obstacle wasn't there (thus reducing margin for error and increasing risk of an accident). On the contrary, if someone IS paying attention he/she may slow down out of fear (crashing, puncturing a tire, fear of being unable to make the car fit) and make circulation more difficult. Moreover, if we talk about bends or other, I have seen bends which have actually been badly designed on purpose (the main purpose being making people slow down and the actual result being getting cars to face blocks of concrete popping out of the blue exactly in the bend line. This happens at legal speed too, and bad weather or night don't help very much either).

I must add that systems like narrowing the streets reduce the number of car that can pass through a certain place in a fixed amount of time ,and narrowing the streets reduce the possibility for a vehicle to overtake safely, or just legally, another vehicle, even cars overtaking bycicles. Yes, traffic average speed will be reduced, but it will also be more changeable (traffic will react even at small modifications in vehicle speed and number) and unpredictable, and traffic will be prone to complete blocks in case of crashes or mechanical failure or pure and simple heavy traffic.

We must also remember, at this point, that reducing average speed under a certain limit and, most of all, inducing this by making vehicles ride at non-constant speeds by accelerating and braking constantly is a good way to raise both the mechanical wearing and the fuel consumption, two things that increase pollution. Plus, it is a raise which happens exactly in the most densely populated, and residential, areas, precisely where every government is trying to reduce this sort of things.

Last but not least, reducing traffic speed on roads where surface public transportation also run means actively reducing the average speed of buses and trams and the like.

So, ok, average speed is reduced, which is safer for certain cathegories of people (and the less protected, I must admit) but at the cost of heavier and less fluid traffic, higher risk for accident to motorists (so less safety for them), higher costs (for both vehicles and road maintenance) and higher pollution.

I still maintain that education (for both motorists and pedestrian/cyclists), better road system design (make transfer roads that avoid residential areas and make residential pedestrian areas surrounded by roads and parkings), better public transportation, and active patroling are far more effective solutions to reduce risks while keeping faster roads and low pollution.

But I know that putting blocks of concrete is less expensive and requires less efforts.

Too bad this least difficult way of letting people driving around without knowing what they are doing and desinging senseless streets is getting us to a constant lowering of speed limits and growing of prohibitions and limitations and frustrating absurdities. (And yes, I predict that even our belovedgerman autobahns will get a low speed limit, sooner or later, out of "safety" and "pollution" issues).
 
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I still maintain that education (for both motorists and pedestrian/cyclists), better road system design (make transfer roads that avoid residential areas and make residential pedestrian areas surrounded by roads and parkings), better public transportation, and active patroling are far more effective solutions to reduce risks while keeping faster roads and low pollution.
One extremely common and popular way of doing this in Russia (used to be?) is the underground crossing. You walk under the road and do not interfere with any traffic. I am not sure if it changed since switching from a centrally planned economy to a free market system though.
 
That's ok, but they are dangerous for me too. We are having a problems here because roads are built to be slow and narrow and dangerous on purpose.

They put sharp bends, they put blocks of concrete in the middle of the road, they put chicanes, they narrow the streets down so you HAVE to slow down, and if you go too fast you crash, but how is that in the name of road safety?

Um, how about....not driving too fast? If they make the roads so you have to go slow, whether or not you agree with it...you're supposed to go slow.

This ain't rocket science. ;)

Just like putting those road spike type things on the places where they say not to back up...


If you back up, your tires are now shot. And driving on flat tires can be dangerous, but the answer to this isn't to remove the spikes.

It's to not drive over them backwards. :p
 
Um, how about....not driving too fast? If they make the roads so you have to go slow, whether or not you agree with it...you're supposed to go slow.

The problem is not really what I'm supposed to do, the problem is that I feel it is wrong to make roads more dangerous in the name of road safety.

Yes, I will go slow (or I will just defy the thing and continue with an averagely low speed since some of them are just set in the middle of nowhere to make you slow down to a ridiculously slow pace), but I met some of them at night or in bad weather and in places where they are not well lit at all, and I was already going slow and still I was uncomfortable because I wasn't told about those things trying to damage me. Personally, I haven't really had serious problems with them, but the things might really go unnnoticed and do damage to some people that weren't doing, up to then, nothing immoral.

But, I repeat, those are only part of the problems; I know places with road bumps so badly-placed that if you really take them too fast you can actually take off and be shot directly towards opposite incoming traffic (yes, they are on a small bend).

So, how on earth is putting dangerous obstacles on the road a way to improve safety? Are motorists less valuable than pedestrians?

This ain't rocket science. ;)

Just like putting those road spike type things on the places where they say not to back up...

If you back up, your tires are no shot. And driving on flat tires can be dangerous, but the answer to this isn't to remove the spikes.

It's to not drive over them backwards. :p

I can see at least two big differences between spikes and demonic chicanes: the first one is that to trigger spikes you must do very many things wrong (like taking a road in the wrong direction regardless of a great number of flashy panels, or stop down on a one-way street, put in reverse and drive backwards. With demonic chicanes you only have to be faster than they want you to be, which is much more easy to achieve, and most of the time legal just before the thing. The second difference is that you get your tires shot, you simply stop, you don't find yourself faced with the danger of physical injuries (or vehicle damage, excluding the tires), while you risk serious injuries with the demonic chicanes. With spikes you get in danger only if you do yet another blatantly stupid thing, like trying to drive away with blown tires.

Seriously, I'd go as far as to say that I'd prefere speed cameras to physical obstacles. (and that is saying much! :) )
 
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I see where you're coming from, but the problem simply is that people ignore speed limits. So now, they'll have to find out the hard way.
 
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I see where you're coming from, but the problem simply is that people ignore speed limits. So now, they'll have to find out the hard way.

Are you sure?

We both live in a society that is telling everybody that physical punishments are not right, a society where the worst punishment is jail and you won't get hurt even if you kidnap, then rape, then torture and then kill someone; but you would like to put in danger the physical integrity of someone for just... breaking the speed limit (and it's not even sure)?
 
Well, it's not that I specifically support obstacles in the road, but I say that they wouldn't be there if people would stick to the speed limits in the first place.
 
Also, I'd like to point out a very, very old concept that seems to have been forgotten.

Government, in "modern" political theory (the early 1700's) is a subject to a social contract, dependent upon consent of the governed. Not upon morals, or what is "right" - a government which regularly creates laws and regulations that the majority of those governed by them do not accept is invalid - and those laws which the majority to not accept are invalid. When 80% of the traffic on a road (hell, or even 51%) is traveling above the speed limit, the speed limit is null and void in a strict democratic sense.

The unfortunate matter is that, despite John Locke having contributed hugely to this concept, and John Locke's thinking contributing immensely to the founding of the United States and in cases appearing directly in the documents doing so, this basic underlying concept of democracy was never codified in the documents defining the American democratic government, and thus never duplicated in the various emulations over the centuries since.

The shortcoming comes because nowhere is it actually specified that representatives in a representative democracy MUST represent the will of their constituents - it says all over the place that they are elected TO represent the will of their constituents, but they are not bound to it except by electoral pressure - which probably sounded great in 1776 in a room full of people determined to be the best representatives of the people that they possibly could be at great personal cost, but falls apart once you expose it to the reality of the world, where we're presented with at most 5 or 6 choices, all of which are pretty similar in terms of what they'll actually do in office.
 
It might surprise you, but I very much agree with you. I find the socalled "democracies" we have preposterous. And I understand the trouble with speed limts. I mean after all, how is anyone in a position to tell me how fast to go in my car on some road?

And if you think about speed limits from a logical point of view, they don't make too much sense either: one limit for all daytimes, all weather conditions and all traffic situations. How does that add up? So the limit is set to the lower end of the scale to cover even the most dangerous situations. But when the road is snowy or icy, people will slow down anyway and independently of the limit, so what's the purpose?

On the other hand, speed limits have an advantage: they make us all equal. No matter what you drive, how hard you worked to be able to buy it and how much horses you got: a 35 mph limit is a 35 mph limit. That however is pure theory. Traffic would work if people were to stick to such limits. But they don't.

Imagine there were no speed limits at all, and people would determine the safe-speed dependent of the current situation. Sounds fine, because it's perfectly adaptive. Except it isn't, because traffic looks very different through the windscreen of my measily old Fiesta compared to the huge Audi Q7 that is tailgating me. He could easily do 70 where I can only safely do 35, and that's fine. But does that give him the right to imprint his four rings into my neck and endanger me, himself and probably others in the process?

So what am I saying? That speed limits mostly don't make too much sense? Yes. That we therefore should ignore them? No.

I actually think that mankind is not ripe enough for the traffic (and speed limits as a part of it) we have nowadays, because they are not willing to all pull together to make the life of everyone around them better. Everyone except a handful of people is just interested in his own good and how to advance his own existence, almost noone is ready for compromises. Speed limits are a compromise, and if everyone wouldn't make such a big deal about it and just accept to stick to them within reason, we'd all get along nicely.
 
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Given the take the things are taking, I need to add one thing:

I don't want to abolish speed limits (I hate the stupid ones but that's another topic), I simply don't want them to be enforced through dangerous obstacles.
 
I actually think that mankind is not ripe enough for the traffic (and speed limits as a part of it) we have nowadays, because they are not willing to all pull together to make the life of everyone around them better. Everyone except a handful of people is just interested in his own good and how to advance his own existence, almost noone is ready for compromises. Speed limits are a compromise, and if everyone wouldn't make such a big deal about it and just accept to stick to them within reason, we'd all get along nicely.

It's really altogether amazing that man is able to safely navigate in a car at modern speeds at all when you think about it. But the ride sure is a dramatic improvement over hooved quadrupeds!

This sort of idea of being unwilling to pull together for the group interest is really the fundamental issue behind having any laws at all. In theory it sounds great to let everyone take care of himself, do what's right, and what's safe. In theory. I always like to point out that in theory communism works, but we've all seen how that panned out. :D
 
The problem is not really what I'm supposed to do, the problem is that I feel it is wrong to make roads more dangerous in the name of road safety.

Well, that I do agree with you on. IF it were making it truly dangerous. But these ones aren't. The ones in my article are placed far enough apart, and announced very well in advance by huge signs, (until some moron ran them over) that these islands are coming up.

*snip* but I met some of them at night or in bad weather and in places where they are not well lit at all,

Yep. I have seen quite a few that were just placed...bad. Not 'labeled' properly, or just badly made/installed. Those can be an absolute menace.

Personally, I haven't really had serious problems with them, but the things might really go unnnoticed and do damage to some people that weren't doing, up to then, nothing immoral.

Again, I've seen some absolutely asinine ones myself. And horrible speed bumps and the like. Ones that even if you slow down more then they say, they'll destroy your suspension. The railroad crossings on Rome-Hillard Road to name one such animal. *shudders*

But the ones in this article don't fit those parameters. Like I said, I've driven through them many a time, and even if it were dark, or icy, if you ever drove through them too, you'd think;

"Really? Someone actually didn't see these? Seriously? Were they freaking blind!?"



So, how on earth is putting dangerous obstacles on the road a way to improve safety? Are motorists less valuable than pedestrians?

This is close to a school. And where kids walk on the sidewalks close to the road. They've put up School crossing signs. Didn't work. Blinking caution signs. Didn't work. Small speed bumps. Didn't work. And so on...

People in this area just refused to slow down...well..they'll either slow down now...or kiss their car good bye.


And the whole point of me posting the article was the bit about drivers just not being smart enough to drive right, then left. :)
 
Well, it's not that I specifically support obstacles in the road, but I say that they wouldn't be there if people would stick to the speed limits in the first place.

Bingo! :)

But, in this one area, the city had already tried just about everything short of hiring a police officer to just sit there 24 hours a day. :-(
 
We do that. Excess cop cars about to be sold off. Park them on the side of the freeway, put hi-vis jacket around the driver side seat and a cap on top (looks like someone's sitting there). Lock up car and leave.

Apparently it's working.
 
Yesterday I saw a bus trigger a speed camera at ~90km/h on a 80km/h zone. Go public transport! :lol:
 
Well, it's not that I specifically support obstacles in the road, but I say that they wouldn't be there if people would stick to the speed limits in the first place.

The are only two reasons for speed limits to be in place. One you and I discussed at length before. Another is lack of driving skill/education of the general public. Reason why speed bump enforced speed limits are bad is strictly because the cater to the lowest common denominator, which in itself is not a problem. However instead of attempting to raise that denominator the government keeps on taking the easy way out and introducing new rules/ways of catering to it. That in turn results in the lowering of the denominator.

With proper driver education there should be no speed limits whatsoever only suggested speed for the conditions of the road.

Also it is one thing to introduce rules and devices that ensure compliance with those rules, it is quite another thing to design roads in the dumbest way possible.

Few examples around where I live.
An off ramp which is a RIGHT ANGLE TURN off a 50MPH highway with no slow down ramp or sign warning you of it coming up. To make it alot more fun the terror of that off ramp was hidden by vegetation so I had absolutely no way to tell what it looked like. I'm just happy I have racing brake pads and AWD/TC/ESP for those times.

Highway on ramps that have stop signs at the end. Now mind you I know its not unheard of in other places but we are talking on the one of the two biggest highways in Brooklyn (pop around 4 million), and it's the one where trucks are allowed (the other one is cars only). To make it more fun there is one particular one that is right after a turn in the highway making it nearly impossible to tell what lane the cars coming up are in. It gets even better, there is no shoulder.....

There is another fun turn that connects two major roads here, it has a right angled turn that pops up out of nowhere....
We do that. Excess cop cars about to be sold off. Park them on the side of the freeway, put hi-vis jacket around the driver side seat and a cap on top (looks like someone's sitting there). Lock up car and leave.

Apparently it's working.
Oh it does work very well. Generally if the lights are off (by law police has to have SOME light on) the officer would not be allowed to pull you over. The number of people who know that though is extremely low. Even though I know that I still slow down because there is no point in risking it and explaining to the judge that "the lights were off" is too big of a gamble.
And if you think about speed limits from a logical point of view, they don't make too much sense either: one limit for all daytimes, all weather conditions and all traffic situations. How does that add up? So the limit is set to the lower end of the scale to cover even the most dangerous situations. But when the road is snowy or icy, people will slow down anyway and independently of the limit, so what's the purpose?
There is a road here that has variable speed limit (controlled by LED signs) between 55-65. I have not seen the limit set to 65 in a very long time in any conditions. No one ever goes below 80 though....
He could easily do 70 where I can only safely do 35, and that's fine. But does that give him the right to imprint his four rings into my neck and endanger me, himself and probably others in the process?
Douchebags are douchebags there is no escaping it, they will generally ignore speed limits anyway.

There have been studies done by quite a few law enforcement, government and independent agencies and they all found one thing - people drive at the speed they are comfortable with. There is even an 85th percentile rule that is used in traffic enforcement quite a bit. For instance on the Belt you are not likely to get stopped for 65-70 depending on time of day despite the limit being 50 because then they would have to pull over most of the road. There are other roads where going 30 over is absolutely normal and accepted by both the law enforcement and regular drivers.
 
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This is close to a school. And where kids walk on the sidewalks close to the road. They've put up School crossing signs. Didn't work. Blinking caution signs. Didn't work. Small speed bumps. Didn't work. And so on...

People in this area just refused to slow down...well..they'll either slow down now...or kiss their car good bye.

The thing is, they dont help near schools either and STILL make the road more dangerous. You see, people are so busy paying attention to the damn cement in the road that they aren't looking for kids. A couple of years ago my dad hit a dog that had run into the middle of a busy road because its owner was frantically waving from the side and distracting him. Had she not been doing this, he would most certainly have seen the dog and not hit it. You can't make people be better drivers. I'm sorry but putting shit IN the road still wont make them slow down.
 
Weird (and bad) driver yesterday. I was getting a lift to the station with my dad (fortunately in the Volvo so we had ABS). Driving along normally on fairly icy roads when suddenly a driver ahead reverses out of his driveway right into the road, with his rear wheels locked up (FWD). After causing us to stop reasonably quickly, he then failed to move off for a bit until he removed his handbrake. Then not 200 yards down the road he did an emergency stop in the middle of the road completely randomly, forcing dad to stop suddenly too, needing ABS on our part. What an idiot.
 
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