Superchargers are for pussies! [Viper ACR does 7:22 @ 'Ring]

Viper007Bond

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Viper: Stripped out interior, adjustable wings+dampers+lowered shocks, NOT ROAD LEGAL = RACE TUNED

I don't hear you bitching about the GT3 RS. :rolleyes:

And the stripped interior is an option and it's only 40 lbs. It's also 100% road legal in the USA.
 

bartboy9891

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Correction; Viper is barely street legal in the US-- However, would you drive it on the road? I know it is fast on the ring, but come on..

Removed: radio, speakers, amplifier, trunk carpet, hood pad and tire inflater
And regarding the aerodynamic upgrades: 1000 lbf (4.4 kN) of down-force at 150 mph (240 km/h), or roughly 10 times the downforce the stock Viper can produce at 150 mph.

Comparing a RACE spec car with STREET spec car isn't the same.

To quote;
The ZR1 was tested with production-spec Michelin Pilot tires, factory-spec ride height and suspension settings were untouched. Even the fuel was normal pump gas.

I'm not saying the ACR isn't significantly modified from the stock SRT-10. Also, I'm not arguing that the ACR is just as usable every day as the GTR or ZR1. But the ACR is just as street legal as a GT3RS is. I just don't see much of a problem with comparing similarly priced performance cars with each other. Sure one is built for the track and the others are made for the road, but if you are interested in these cars then you probably already know that.
 

godlikepagan

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For a fair comparison lets see what happens when you throw a huge front spliter, big ass wing and sticky tires on the ZR-1 and GTR.

On that note, why not give the Viper forced induction, ceramic brakes, factory backing, better gearing (like the zr1 since it essentially has the same gearbox), and 2 weeks of testing and tuning like Nissan and Chevy? And how about more seat time for the driver.
 

Seasonone

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5 out of 6 with 2 more cars? You know that the current top 6 stands as Radical, Donkervoort, Radical, Dodge, Chevy, Pagani. Even if both Toyota and Nissan beat 6:55, that would make a top 6 of Toyota, Nissan, Radical, Donkervoort, Radical, Dodge. That's assuming they do so before Ultima get a dry day or Caparo get a kick up the arse from Gordon Murray.

I'd go and learn some more maffs if I was u.

Are you really trying to compare production cars made by top manufacturers to tube frames with a bit of fiberglass a seat and a giant engine just because they add headlights and tailights to pass the most basic minimum requirements to be called street legal? The viper is a "Dodge Viper" you go into a Dodge dealership and buy one. You don't get shipped pieces because they can't be imported as a full car than assemble it and register it as a kit car.


don't forget the carrera GT and the koenigsegg

europe isn't lost just yet :D

They are both behind the stock GTR
 

BlaRo

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Correction; Viper is barely street legal in the US-- However, would you drive it on the road? I know it is fast on the ring, but come on..

Just because you wouldn't want to drive it doesn't mean it's not any less street legal.

As long as it has the requisite lights, airbags, 5mph bumpers, blah blah bullshit, then it doesn't need a radio or power windows, etc.
 

Hercules286

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Woah, another surprise, Nice!

And It's fully street legal. Id rather run to the store in one of these over some 16,000rpm super track day machines.

I'd rather take a Lexus IS to the shops than the Viper. If you're shopping with a Viper, you'll get a sensory overload from all the noise. ;)

(I was going to say Citroen Berlingo, but then I realized I'd like a little more prestige than a delivery boy)
 

Meio

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Are you really trying to compare production cars made by top manufacturers to tube frames with a bit of fiberglass a seat and a giant engine just because they add headlights and tailights to pass the most basic minimum requirements to be called street legal? The viper is a "Dodge Viper" you go into a Dodge dealership and buy one. You don't get shipped pieces because they can't be imported as a full car than assemble it and register it as a kit car.

Boo fucking hoo, I knew you'd say that.

Just because you can make a GRP, tube framed car in the US and drive it on the road, but you can't import a complete, identical car and do the same means that companies send over incomplete cars. What's so hard to understand about that? If you want to buy a Radical, get your arse over to Radical West at Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch in Pahrump, NV and put your money down.

Donkervoort don't export to the US, boo hoo.

Oh and where did you get the idea that any of the cars in the top 3 street legal production car 'ring record holders had giant engines?

Can I buy your slow Dodge here in the UK?
 

prizrak

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Boo fucking hoo, I knew you'd say that.

Just because you can make a GRP, tube framed car in the US and drive it on the road, but you can't import a complete, identical car and do the same means that companies send over incomplete cars. What's so hard to understand about that? If you want to buy a Radical, get your arse over to Radical West at Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch in Pahrump, NV and put your money down.

Donkervoort don't export to the US, boo hoo.

Oh and where did you get the idea that any of the cars in the top 3 street legal production car 'ring record holders had giant engines?

Can I buy your slow Dodge here in the UK?
*dones a flame suit*

I do have to say that I would put these cars in different categories. Something like a Radical is obviously while street legal is not really a street car, Viper and Vette on the other hand are street cars that are made for more than just track speed. Having a full interior would be one of the tell tale signs ;)
 
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Meio

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*dones a flame suit*

I do have to say that I would put these cars in different categories. Something like a Radical is obviously while street legal is not really a street car, Viper and Vette on the other hand are street cars that are made for more than just track speed. Having a full interior would be one of the tell tale signs ;)

I'd compare them, absolutely. When you get to these kind of cars you end up with the same thing, but from 2 different starting points. 1 method is to build a racing car, and bolt just enough to it to make it street legal while the other method is to take a comfy sports car and make it into a track weapon by throwing everything away you don't need but while still just keeping it street legal.

Define a full interior.
 

smib

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Not what the ACR Viper has.
 

WillDAQ

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They are both behind the stock GTR

You really think the GTR was an in house effort from Nissan?

Top Gear have already let slip that the suspension is the work of Lotus. There's no way everything else was their own work...

Not to mention the engine may be built in Japan, but sure as hell wasn't designed there! The usual suspects have been doing this sort of thing for years only nowadays the manufacturer takes the credit.
 
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Seasonone

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Lotus helped fine tune the suspension, trying to take credit for that is well... something jezza would do (btw top gear is not a reliable source of information, it's an entertainment program and nothing more) Do you really think they car would lose 3 seconds if JIC magic or Tien was in charge of fine tuning?

And the GTR "does what it does" because of Attesa-ETS, their self designed AWD system created in the late 80's.

Oh and the almighty Koenigsegg may have "their own" engine now, but it's based on a Ford engine. I guess that means the Koenigsegg is no longer a European car right? ;)


Is it possible for a European to give faster cars respect? I hate viper's and 99% of american cars, but that's a damn fast car no matter how you slice it.
 

prizrak

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I'd compare them, absolutely. When you get to these kind of cars you end up with the same thing, but from 2 different starting points. 1 method is to build a racing car, and bolt just enough to it to make it street legal while the other method is to take a comfy sports car and make it into a track weapon by throwing everything away you don't need but while still just keeping it street legal.

Define a full interior.
At minimum all the metal is covered, at maximum you get HV(AC) and a radio of sorts. Yes I know ACR has a strip out package but that is not what the car comes with standard.
 

WillDAQ

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Lotus helped fine tune the suspension, trying to take credit for that is well... something jezza would do (btw top gear is not a reliable source of information, it's an entertainment program and nothing more) Do you really think they car would lose 3 seconds if JIC magic or Tien was in charge of fine tuning?
You don't normally call a company to 'help' 'fine tune' anything, either they're involved in the design phase or it's a waste of time. A company like Nissan will not have enough specialists in performance vehicles field to retain that sort of capability. So what does the company do? Subcontract! The specialists uses the company parts bin and add their own components as required.

This isn't some dig at a particular nation or company, every single large car manufacturer does it including super car manufacturers. Quite a lot of them even pay these companies to purchase rivals cars, tear them down and benchmark them.

And the GTR "does what it does" because of Attesa-ETS, their self designed AWD system created in the late 80's.
Well done to them, they designed one part of the drive train in house.;)

Oh and the almighty Koenigsegg may have "their own" engine now, but it's based on a Ford engine. I guess that means the Koenigsegg is no longer a European car right? ;)
Again, the Ford engine is the base that they tune. Koenigsegg is never going to have the production facilities to produce entire engines so they take a base block and rework most of the heads.

The only difference between the GT-R and the Koenigsegg is that the GT-R goes out the door with the block manufacturers name on while the Koenigsegg goes out with the tuners name. On that basis if you're accepting that the Koenigsegg is European then the Nissan is too.. (British actually but :angel:)

Is it possible for a European to give faster cars respect? I hate viper's and 99% of american cars, but that's a damn fast car no matter how you slice it.
I am unashamedly from the British old school of engineering (think Lotus). For me a performance car should start with a light, stiff chassis and build up from there. It's actually more similar to aircraft design in many ways as quite a lot of the early sports car engineers in the UK trained in aerospace.

I'm not sure if that counts as 'European' or not but to my mind your ZR-1s and your Vipers just start from the wrong place in terms of design.
 

Wizegui

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The Viper is one of the main exceptions of the rule. You cannot argue with a 600+ hp N/A V10 engine with more torque than most of your average supercars. This is a proper driver's cars with fat tires, proper mechanical grip, and no driver aids. I absolutely love the sound that it makes too. Who cares if it has a crappy interior. Its a family oriented car or even a GT car. It's a stripped out racer built for racing.
 

hansvonaxion

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Boo fucking hoo, I knew you'd say that.

Just because you can make a GRP, tube framed car in the US and drive it on the road, but you can't import a complete, identical car and do the same means that companies send over incomplete cars. What's so hard to understand about that? If you want to buy a Radical, get your arse over to Radical West at Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch in Pahrump, NV and put your money down.

Donkervoort don't export to the US, boo hoo.

Oh and where did you get the idea that any of the cars in the top 3 street legal production car 'ring record holders had giant engines?

Can I buy your slow Dodge here in the UK?

I remember this same argument from when the GT-R beat the "lap record". It was explained to you then, I guess you must have forgotten.



You don't normally call a company to 'help' 'fine tune' anything, either they're involved in the design phase or it's a waste of time. A company like Nissan will not have enough specialists in performance vehicles field to retain that sort of capability. So what does the company do? Subcontract! The specialists uses the company parts bin and add their own components as required.

Lotus have been "fine tuning" suspensions for decades. Look for the little badges. Nissan has race teams and NISMO, made up of a lot of performance specialists, you might be surprised.

The only difference between the GT-R and the Koenigsegg is that the GT-R goes out the door with the block manufacturers name on while the Koenigsegg goes out with the tuners name. On that basis if you're accepting that the Koenigsegg is European then the Nissan is too.. (British actually but :angel:)

You lost me here, doesn't make sense. Either way, Lotus is a Malaysian company. The GT-R is part Malay.

I'm not sure if that counts as 'European' or not but to my mind your ZR-1s and your Vipers just start from the wrong place in terms of design.

If they started in the wrong place, they certainly ended up in the right one.


Re: the vid, that was brutal, just brutal. Damn fast, too.
 

WillDAQ

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Lotus have been "fine tuning" suspensions for decades. Look for the little badges. Nissan has race teams and NISMO, made up of a lot of performance specialists, you might be surprised.
Again, race team engineers are not the same as performance specialists for road cars. I doubt i'll be surprised as I know who did the tuning :p however i'm not about to get the person who's conversation I overheard into trouble...

You lost me here, doesn't make sense. Either way, Lotus is a Malaysian company. The GT-R is part Malay.
If you want to be precise about it then yes.

If they started in the wrong place, they certainly ended up in the right one.
I'll give you that one...
 
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Sir Stiggington

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I think a track car is a track car. be it a Viper ACR or a Radical. You can compare them, cause neither of them are made for the road, but they both work on the road...

The Radical is just better because they set out to build a racecar that was roadlegal. Doge built a roadcar, and then adapted it to make it work on the track. Both are the same in terms of comfort, ie. there isn't, but in terms of performance it's just better to have a car built for the job.
 

argatoga

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Oh and the almighty Koenigsegg may have "their own" engine now, but it's based on a Ford engine. I guess that means the Koenigsegg is no longer a European car right? ;)

What I love about the old Koenigseggs is that they used the Ford 4.6 block, Clarkson's favorite engine.:p
 

TC

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I think a track car is a track car. be it a Viper ACR or a Radical. You can compare them, cause neither of them are made for the road, but they both work on the road...

The Radical is just better because they set out to build a racecar that was roadlegal. Doge built a roadcar, and then adapted it to make it work on the track. Both are the same in terms of comfort, ie. there isn't, but in terms of performance it's just better to have a car built for the job.

Uhh, No. There is no comparing a bath tub with a racing seat to the closed roof production sports coupe. The ACR almost looks luxurious compared to the Radical.

http://pic.armedcats.net/a/an/anonymous/2008/08/30/radical_001.jpg
http://pic.armedcats.net/a/an/anonymous/2008/08/30/Viper_ACR.jpg
 
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