Superchargers are for pussies! [Viper ACR does 7:22 @ 'Ring]

Meio

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Not only disabled grandma's like to stay dry and warm in the winter, but 99.9% of all drivers.... and there's a name for the rest: motorcyclists.

What I'm suggesting is that to claim that a record is invalid for a car with no roof that is essentially a street legal racing car, you would have to deny the car-ness of some cars from the established greats of the automotive world.
Would you deny the car-ness of the road/race machines used in such races as the Mille Miglia of the 40s? Many of the early high performance cars were roadster, spyder, barchetta, or similar body styles, and many of them still are. Would you accuse Ferrari of not actually making a real car until the 50s? What about Aston Martin? Alfa Romeo? They all made no-frills competition cars which were available to purchase by the wealthy for road use. Very often no-frills = no roof.
Just because you're too much of a cosseted wuss to enjoy the wind in your hair while you blast around the countryside doesn't mean that your pathetic opinion carries any weight as to the validity of a car to hold a record for quickest lap time for a street legal production car.

Ooh, did I touch a nerve there with your precious Donkervoort? There I go again, I guess. Remember kids, I aim to please.

I don't bum Donkervoorts or even Mr Donkervoort, I just think that you're treading a fine line with the "LOL, what a silly name." gags.
 

smib

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Wait, what? Donkervoort can't be considered funny or amusing in any way? I can understand that if it's from your native language the sillyness is pretty much lost on you, but come on. Donkervoort. It's a bit funny.
 

klankymen

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What I'm suggesting is that to claim that a record is invalid for a car with no roof that is essentially a street legal racing car, you would have to deny the car-ness of some cars from the established greats of the automotive world.
Would you deny the car-ness of the road/race machines used in such races as the Mille Miglia of the 40s? Many of the early high performance cars were roadster, spyder, barchetta, or similar body styles, and many of them still are. Would you accuse Ferrari of not actually making a real car until the 50s? What about Aston Martin? Alfa Romeo? They all made no-frills competition cars which were available to purchase by the wealthy for road use. Very often no-frills = no roof.
Just because you're too much of a cosseted wuss to enjoy the wind in your hair while you blast around the countryside doesn't mean that your pathetic opinion carries any weight as to the validity of a car to hold a record for quickest lap time for a street legal production car.



I don't bum Donkervoorts or even Mr Donkervoort, I just think that you're treading a fine line with the "LOL, what a silly name." gags.

40s, 50s.... notice a trend? not now.

Just cause it was acceptable to invade poland in the 40s doesn't mean it's still ok now.
 

Meio

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Donkervoort. It's a bit funny.

Not as funny as Pieter van den Hoogenband...









Damn!

Anyway if you think that Donkervoort sounds funny, never go to the Netherlands... or Belgium.... or South Africa... or Suriname... people will think you are a mentally retarded person when you spend every hour of the day laughing at the funny sounds they are making.

In fact never go to a foreign country if you can help it, all of those foreigners talk a bit weird (though I will admit to having stayed in a Hotel - attached to a YWCA - on Man Fuk Road in Mongkok when I visited Hong Kong and thought it was hilarious... A YWCA on Man Fuk road? No wonder the drop-in centre's heaving... but that's not because it sounds funny, but that it has a funny meaning in my native tongue).

40s, 50s.... notice a trend? not now.

Just cause it was acceptable to invade poland in the 40s doesn't mean it's still ok now.

So what are you saying, that people who buy 'cars' these days are pussies or that taking the roof off of a car is blatant cheating? Why is having no roof not OK?
 
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janstett

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Yeah, I'm afraid this will be the same as the Z06, great on the track, awful on the road.

Grrrr, I wish people would stop saying this.

Have you ever driven a Z06? I have.

Look, Clarkson has every right to not like a car. It's too wide. It's too left-hand drive. It has chrome wheels. Whatever. But the lame excuse he went to, time and time again, on the Z06 is just plain wrong. It's tightly sprung, but no more so than my 944 w/ Konis setup or my TA with Eibach/Bilsteins. It's sprung aggressively and it isn't a luxury car. But anyone whose ever driven a set up track/street car knows what to expect.

I drove a Z06 and a Ford GT (one of Jeremy's faves) back to back, and the Ford GT, now talk about stiffly sprung and completely unusable off the track! That thing was so stiffly sprung that going over washboard runoff pavement on an onramp, my spine felt every single little ripple of concrete. It was sprung like it had no springs. But of course Jeremy wouldn't say any of that because the GT is his baby.

In fact, the number of times he went to the well on this misleading statement has made me question his automotive integrity and seems to be the catch-all cover excuse for why he doesn't like the car, when it's clearly not true especially compared to some other cars he's in love with.
 
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bartboy9891

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Not only disabled grandma's like to stay dry and warm in the winter, but 99.9% of all drivers.... and there's a name for the rest: motorcyclists.

The original Viper didn't have a roof or even side windows. I know this isn't really relevant, but Dodge knew that it wouldn't be bought by that many people and that those people would only drive it when it was nice and sunny outside.
 

Meio

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The original Viper didn't have a roof or even side windows. I know this isn't really relevant, but Dodge knew that it wouldn't be bought by that many people and that those people would only drive it when it was nice and sunny outside.

I'd say that was entirely relevant.
 

prizrak

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Meio, Klankymen

Your argument is silly. both the hypercars and the tubs with engines in them are defined as cars. Neither is anymore car like. However I would like to point out that anything with a bike engine can't really be called a car :p
 

Meio

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However I would like to point out that anything with a bike engine can't really be called a car :p

So the Radical's record is a valid record in your book?

(I'll play fair and point out that the Powertec RP V8 was developed as a car engine, and, as far as I know, has never been used in a bike.)

Does the Viper not count as a car because it uses a truck engine?
 

prizrak

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So the Radical's record is a valid record in your book?

(I'll play fair and point out that the Powertec RP V8 was developed as a car engine, and, as far as I know, has never been used in a bike.)

Does the Viper not count as a car because it uses a truck engine?

TBH as long as they come in stock configuration the records are valid. I would argue that the Viper is more car like than a Radical or an Atom but to borrow from Initial D "They run on 4 tires [and have a steering wheel] so they are cars".

Well if you really wanna call the Viper a truck with such a good record.... :D
 

Night_Hawk

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This disagreement has gone way beyond pointless.

If you can legally drive it on roads. Its a street vehicle.

whether it be a radical SR8 or a Viper ACR or a Lotus Exige or a Rolls Royce Phantom.

The Viper just happens to hold the record right now for production cars.

I don't even know why you guys started arguing in the first place but I couldn't just sit back and watch anymore.
 

Meio

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This disagreement has gone way beyond pointless.

If you can legally drive it on roads. Its a street vehicle.

whether it be a radical SR8 or a Viper ACR or a Lotus Exige or a Rolls Royce Phantom.

Agreed.

The Viper just happens to hold the record right now for production cars.

I don't even know why you guys started arguing in the first place but I couldn't just sit back and watch anymore.

The disagreement started because there is a street legal production car that has done a lap in 6:55 (actually rounded to 6:56 by the manufacturer). It is in fact the SR8 that holds the record.
 

anti-net

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Good to see that the Viper is back doing been a proper car, recent models have been ugly and a bit crap, the racing viper also looks butt ugly compared to the ones that won Le Mans in 90s.

Also the SR8 is clearly more comfortable and practical than the ACR*


*Please note: That statement is highly inaccurate
 

Vector

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There are a few things that need to be considered first. I do not know this car at all so forgive my ignorance.

Is this car streetable at all? It looks like a throbbing, flexing out and out race car with that big wing and low ride height. Doesn't look that comfortable to drive on the street, whereas the ZR1 is supposed to be because of its fancy magnetic suspension. Does the ACR use anything like that?

If this is just a stripped out race car, then well no shit it's going to beat the 'Vette. But the Vette is almost as fast AND it's still civilized on the road and looks far less ridiculous while doing it too. Also remember that the guy driving the Vette is 'just' one of their engineers and is not a true race car driver -- so it is doubtless that we have not seen this car's true potential just yet.

Am I wrong?
 
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Viper007Bond

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There are a few things that need to be considered first. I do not know this car at all so forgive my ignorance.

Is this car streetable at all?

An owner on another site...

It's just a tweaked Viper. I drove my ACR 2400 miles home in July, and it handled the trip back very, very well. Hell, IMO, it drove better on the street than my 06 Viper coupe.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504696


The guy has also owned a Ford GT and a Shelby GT500, among other cars.

Lots of people use Vipers as daily drivers. Sure this ACR model is a bit stiff, but I doubt that'll stop the owners from driving them. It's never stopped them before. Some 20-30% of Vipers end up wrecked, because the people that buy them tend to use them, not park them in a garage so they can be looked at occasionally.

It looks like a throbbing, flexing out and out race car with that big wing and low ride height. Doesn't look that comfortable to drive on the street, whereas the ZR1 is supposed to be because of its fancy magnetic suspension. Does the ACR use anything like that?

No because it has something better -- fully adjustable suspension. Drive to the track, reach into the wheel well, turn a knob, and you have stiff suspension set for that particular track (oversteer vs. understeer, etc.). When you're done, twist the knob the other way and you have a decently well riding car, if not a good riding car.

If this is just a stripped out race car, then well no shit it's going to beat the 'Vette. But the Vette is almost as fast but it's still civilized on the road and looks far less ridiculous while doing it too.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you're wrong. It's not a stripped out car:

http://pic.armedcats.net/a/an/anonymous/2008/08/30/Viper_ACR.jpg

There's a free option that strips 40 lbs by taking out the A/C, radio, carpets, and like spare tire or something but it's not a tub with seats and that's it.
 

Vector

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I think what we're comparing here is apples and oranges. The ACR sounds like it's designed to be a track car. The fact that they did this run with slicks, a race-suspension setup, a huge wing, and the weight reduction option demonstrates this. While the Corvette was run without any tweaking, in the same configuration as it would see on the street (they specifically left the ride-height at the street setting) which demonstrates they are going for a performance and ride quality level that will be competative with the much more expensive exotics. The fact that it will do all this, without a professional driver, and only be 4 seconds slower than the ACR actually speaks very highly of the 'Vette imo.
 

prizrak

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I think what we're comparing here is apples and oranges. The ACR sounds like it's designed to be a track car. The fact that they did this run with slicks, a race-suspension setup, a huge wing, and the weight reduction option demonstrates this. While the Corvette was run without any tweaking, in the same configuration as it would see on the street (they specifically left the ride-height at the street setting) which demonstrates they are going for a performance and ride quality level that will be competative with the much more expensive exotics. The fact that it will do all this, without a professional driver, and only be 4 seconds slower than the ACR actually speaks very highly of the 'Vette imo.

The ACR is a production Viper, it comes with an adjustable suspension, the wing and the tires out of the factory. It is basically the top performing version of the Viper that Dodge sells to the public. The ZR-1 is a top version of the Vette that GM sells to the public. As for changes to suspension settings, I suspect that the ZR-1 did not run with it's rheomagnetic suspension in "comfort" mode.
 

Viper007Bond

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Again, they're both production cars that are more than acceptable on the street (unlike the SR8).

Can you really hold it against the ACR just because it's a little more hardcore? Should we not be able to compare two cars unless they have identical features?
 

janstett

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The ACR is a production Viper, it comes with an adjustable suspension, the wing and the tires out of the factory. It is basically the top performing version of the Viper that Dodge sells to the public. The ZR-1 is a top version of the Vette that GM sells to the public. As for changes to suspension settings, I suspect that the ZR-1 did not run with it's rheomagnetic suspension in "comfort" mode.

Not entirely true, privateers can buy a C6R from Pratt & Miller. Of course I don't think the C6R is street legal (these are the cars they run at LeMans/ALMS) and if I remember correctly they are stripped and caged. I don't know much about the Vipers run at these events but some privateers do run them.

I'd liken the ACR to the 911 GT2 and the ZR1 to the 911 Turbo.

In terms of street-worthiness to track-hound:

ZR1
ACR
C6R
 
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