Supercharging an engine

Ice_warmer

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After some civilised joy driving, I came, and then I came to the conclusion that my chassis could handle a bit more power. Primarily because I tend to drive enthusiastically uphill, because the brakes tend to fade a bit on the downhilly part.
After a while of scavenging the net I came to the conclusion that a supercharger should be the easiest to install.

Though before anything, hardcore yeahhhh installing stuff. I started to think more profound. I won't launch the car at the lights, nor will I race it in any way. But even if I hone the power down I can't but wonder, will the transmission be able to put the extra power to the wheels or will it brake ?

And yes, I don't want astronomical power figures, just a little bit more.

Thoughts ?

Oh yeah, forgot. I took into consideration the idea to strip the car. I am skeptical that the weight reduction will be significant (<50kg). What I would consider before any of these is molding the front wings and the boot and making them out of fiber glass.
 
What car are we talking about? Since you are in Eastern Europe, supercharging is not as easy as it sounds. It would be tough to find good quality aftermarket parts.

Will your transmission hold? It depends. Again - what car is it? Are there more powerful models of your car from the factory and did they come with the same transmission?

Also - a supercharger takes space. Do you have enough in the engine bay? Before doing such mechanical upgrades, I would suggest chipping the car. Generally performance, programmable chips should cost around 500 Euro. A good tuning shop should be able to give you what you need. Since you won't be racing the car, you won't need high end (high revving) power. You would want them to remap the ECU to deliver more hp and torque in the lower RPM's. This will lower your top HP, but it will give you more usable everyday power. Unless you drive everywhere at 6000rpm...
 
Why not put on some performance pads and high temp fluid and just enjoy the downhills? Brakes are cheap and don't blow head gaskets.

Oh and you need this, supercharging is so overrated.
https://pic.armedcats.net/2007/11/09/dei.jpg

Also - a supercharger takes space. Do you have enough in the engine bay? Before doing such mechanical upgrades, I would suggest chipping the car. Generally performance, programmable chips should cost around 500 Euro. A good tuning shop should be able to give you what you need. Since you won't be racing the car, you won't need high end (high revving) power. You would want them to remap the ECU to deliver more hp and torque in the lower RPM's. This will lower your top HP, but it will give you more usable everyday power. Unless you drive everywhere at 6000rpm...

Considering what little can really be done with a chip on an NA motor, he won't lose anything on the top end. Any tweaking to the cam timing/valve lift (if the tuner has access to that part of the map), fueling and ignition timing will only benefit the entire rev range. The trade off for top end/bottom end really only comes into effect when dealing with aftermarket/modified cams and manifolds.
 
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Cam timing/valve lift is done with a computer??? On my car, cams are adjusted manually. The intake cam generally is set up fine in the factory, but on a lot of cars the exhaust cam is retarded to achieve a higher high rev horsepower rating for advertising. Advancing the exhaust cam would bring the power curve down and give you a more consistent power across the range.

The negative side to cam adjustments is that you have to be absolutely sure your timing belt is in perfect running order and is adjusted properly to begin with.
 
After some civilised joy driving, I came, and then I came to the conclusion that my chassis could handle a bit more power. Primarily because I tend to drive enthusiastically uphill, because the brakes tend to fade a bit on the downhilly part.
After a while of scavenging the net I came to the conclusion that a supercharger should be the easiest to install.

A blower is actually more difficult to install than a turbo. Either way, your first upgrades should be the brakes (because if you have fade, you don't have enough brake for more power) followed by investigating your intake and exhaust for any power gains that can be made there. Quite often you can find power there by eliminating factory bodges or compromises that were made in the name of cheaper production. The name of the game is 'increase flow velocity' - removing any restrictions (within reason) that slow down exhaust gases or intake air and improve cylinder scavenging will result in increased power.

If you want just 'a little more', you should probably be happy with a freer-flowing exhaust, a cold air intake and a chip with a dyno tune, depending on what car you have.

Cam timing/valve lift is done with a computer???

If it was controlled by a computer in the first place, which is the case in many newer engines - variable valve timing and duration is usually computer controlled.
 
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Keep in mind that with added power you should also upgrade the suspension and definitely the brakes. For what you describe, why not look into nitrous? You can have power on the uphill and a stock little car for driving around town or wherever.
 
The car in question is a Renault Clio 1.4 8v 75 hp.

Started to talk to someone about this today. He said I'm better of shaving off weight. Because it's expensive, depending on the increase I might need a new pump, injectors, bigger radiator, bigger water pump, remap of the ECU ... endless list if you ask me. And even simply installing the supercharger/turbo is very complex, not skilled enough ... yet.

Weight saving at first sounds really good, the stress on the brakes is reduced, accelerates faster, better fuel economy.

I don't think nitrous is quite the solution because it's really expensive to refill, and once I have the taste of more power ... I doubt I could live without it.

I don't think a chip can really do something significant, at least not at this level of power.

An engine swap is out of the question.
And the direct exhaust injection really sounds scary, imagine the astronomical increase of power with literally no money spent on fuel, so you could run it forever ... I don't know ... people working at the pump need money right ? I couldn't live with them not having anything to eat ...

Has anyone tried makeing wings/boots or anything for a car out of fiber glass, I've heared that it is a dangerous job mixing the resins, it could explode ... so they say.
 
Shaving off weight is never wrong, but you need to pull it through consistently to make a difference. And for an N/A engine, combining new cam shafts with a remapped ECU and a freed-up intake and exhaust might make the difference. I don't know whether there are good aftermarket cam shafts for your engine though, let alone how much they come at.
 
emil_t, you say that an engine swap is out of the question...but is it really? You might have problems registering the car, I don't know how tough the system is in your country. But molding new fiberglass panels is expensive.

Why don't you research how much a used 1.4 16V Renault engine would cost? I'm sure you'll be able to find one cheap. Of course, you can't put it in yourself, but in the end it might be cheaper than making new panels, or installing a supercharger.
 
Didn't the factory option upto 2.0 16v engines in those clio's? I can't imagine swapping in a factory motor would be that expensive, especially compared to a custom supercharger kit or spending the time money molding custom fiberglass panels.

I question how much weight you can save going to FRP on such a small car, unless you replaced the entire rear hatch and put no bracing in, as well as the doors. Not sure I'd want to be driving in a street car like that though.
 
Putting a supercharger on such a small engine won't add much power in the first place. Belt driven turbines require more power to achieve the same boost as an exhaust gas driven one. Outside of having to change quite a bit of the engine components like injectors and manifolds you will also end up having to add another pulley, which means you should also rebalance the crank.
 
Are you making enough to purchase a faster car in a couple years?
 
Putting a supercharger on such a small engine won't add much power in the first place. Belt driven turbines require more power to achieve the same boost as an exhaust gas driven one. Outside of having to change quite a bit of the engine components like injectors and manifolds you will also end up having to add another pulley, which means you should also rebalance the crank.

Optimistically, he can may be pull 90-100hp at the flywheel. It's not worth it though - he can fit a 1.8 16V Renault engine with 137hp, or even get a simple 1.8 8V with 110hp.

My guess though is that he can't do that legally. In some EU countries the VIN and the Engine number have to match.
 
Optimistically, he can may be pull 90-100hp at the flywheel. It's not worth it though - he can fit a 1.8 16V Renault engine with 137hp, or even get a simple 1.8 8V with 110hp.

My guess though is that he can't do that legally. In some EU countries the VIN and the Engine number have to match.
Russia is the same way. I think in this case a faster car down the line would be the better solution. Something with a factory turbo, chipping it would net alot of power easily.
 
I'm gonna say this again, as I think it's important to point this out...

Your brakes are overheating, that does not mean add power! If you're having trouble with your brakes frying you fix the problem, not exacerbate it.

Also better suspension and tires, being a street car You might just go with an aggressive alignment and bigger sway bars, or even adding one to the rear to get the car to rotate more. Those 2 will mean you can carry more speed, reducing the need to brake as much.

A friend of mine, who happens to drive a supercharged 2.0 Ariel Atom, has said more than once "if you're over heating your brakes on public roads, you're doing it wrong!" You shouldn't be pushing that hard, and you should be taking a smoother line.

You're talking to a guy with a 20 year old Mazda that when NEW made 100hp. I only want for power when I don't get enough time on the track/in the hills.

Putting a supercharger on such a small engine won't add much power in the first place. Belt driven turbines require more power to achieve the same boost as an exhaust gas driven one. Outside of having to change quite a bit of the engine components like injectors and manifolds you will also end up having to add another pulley, which means you should also rebalance the crank.

The fuck are you on about? No offense dude, but you obviously don't know much about the subject, perhaps you shouldn't comment.

Supercharged engines don't require a crank balancing when you put a pulley on them, definitely not modern engines. Cranks are balanced separately from their pulleys and the pulleys are neutral balanced. And before you quote guys with under drive pulleys keep in mind they removed the crank dampener which is what will destroy the bearings/crank.

Depending on how old the car he has is, it's likely running a serpentine belt drive, at which case it's a matter of getting another belt, or alternatively driving the supercharger off of a separate pulley on another ancillary. BMW's (specifically the M42/m44 DASC kits) use this setup, as do many Mazda aftermarket setups.

Lastly, most turbo's (at least anything with good response + low boost) tend to have so much back pressure in the system they have just as much drag on the engine as a supercharger... so much so Ford uses the turbo as an engine brake on it's power strokes*. IIRC the SRT4 dodge's actually had more back pressure PRE-turbo in the exhaust than the their was on the intake side.


edit: * apparently Ford canceled that idea.
 
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My guess though is that he can't do that legally. In some EU countries the VIN and the Engine number have to match.

Over here, you have to get your swapped engine registered with your car. If the engine was a factory option, that's quite easy, you go to a MOT center, they certify that the swap is technically sound and then you pay another fifty bucks or so at the DMV for them changing the engine data in your registration.


I don't know shit about Renault's engine, but is a new engine block really necessary for the 1.4 8v/1.4 16v conversion? Wouldn't a new head, ECU, intake/exhaust system, basically everything but the block, crank and pistons be enough? Still sounds cheaper than homemade supercarging and/or fibreglass molding.

But most of all:
If your brakes fail, upgrade them first!
 
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Optimistically, he can may be pull 90-100hp at the flywheel. It's not worth it though - he can fit a 1.8 16V Renault engine with 137hp, or even get a simple 1.8 8V with 110hp.

My guess though is that he can't do that legally. In some EU countries the VIN and the Engine number have to match.

yep, you can't do that

but you can put a 16v head on the engine, blocknumber stays the same, and if done well, people at MOT won't notice at all...
(after you crashed and killed a few pedestrians, be sure the insurance company will find out, and shove it all on you...)
 
Are you making enough to purchase a faster car in a couple years?

+1

What you're talking about doing is alot of work and you don't sound like you have experience doing this. So either you'll have to pay someone to do it for you or try it yourself and risk screwing something up. The way I see it the best two options you have is to either do small power adders as suggested here and suspension, brakes, and alignment or you trade your car in for something with more power. I imagine you could spend less money on a faster car (after trade in) than try for example supercharging the one your currently have.
 
You wanna supercharge WHAT?????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Honestly kid.....your just gonna waste money.....
 
Honestly, don't waste money on a supercharger kit. I'd say a small shot of nitrous, if anything.
 
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