Terrorists strike yet again

Firecat

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Just a few things. These attacks were tragic, clearly. However ISIS still remains a larger threat to the Middle East than globally. To blame the refugees trying to flee the same people that claimed responsibility is also tragic. It's good that the world has condemned this violence, but that condemnation was eerily missing after bombing in Ankara, Beirut and other places.

I don't have a concrete solution on how to deal with the problem at hand. However I do feel strongly that western nations bombing countries in the Middle East is not the right answer and will result in even more violence. Back to my first statement, they are a greater threat to the countries in the Middle East. So those countries should take action themselves. They have weapons. They have armies.
 

LeVeL

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I think it's the other way around. Al Qaeda's motivation was basically revenge. Revenge for the Gulf war and revenge for the creation of Israel. I think their ultimate goal was to get all western powers off "their" lands (their holy lands the Arab world). 9/11 was punishment, not an attempt to destroy the world.

ISIS has a vastly different ideology. They basically want the entire world to adopt their extreme version of Islam. They want to kill the Jews, kill the Christians, kill the Sikhs, kill the Muslims that aren't following extreme Sharia, and so on. This idea of a Muslim planet earth is far from new and it certainly isn't the first attempt to create it. This isn't the Kurds, or the Kosovo Albanians, or the Palestinians who fight to carve out their own little nation and be left alone and be happy. ISIS won't stop at just Iraq and Syria; they won't stop at even the entire middle east. The holy war is on and any non-extreme-Muslims must be destroyed at all costs. It's that ideology that makes them so dangerous because even if you obliterate ISIS, their supporters will remain and they will lie in wait until the next leader rises up.

- - - Updated - - -

Firecat - I think we all realize that the people fleeing ISIS aren't ISIS. The issue is that ISIS is sneaking in sleeper cells as refugees.
 

Firecat

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My concern is that people will start turning away refugees. Interrogate them as you would any other immigrant, that's sensible.

That may be the goal of ISIS, and if it comes even close to that then intervention from the west may be necessary. But to even reach that point they need to take over the lands around wherever they are. Surely some of the neighboring countries will take that threat seriously and fight them.
 

Interrobang

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[...]And that is why I do not understand this shift in strategy. They have nothing to gain from attracting the wrath of all of the West.
I my theory, Daesh runs on two different "fuels" if you want, the organisation seems to be somewhat split. On the one hand, you have religious extremists and on the other hand you have parts of the old Hussein Regime/Military.
The religious extremist part does the recruiting & propaganda, the old military part made sure the recruited idiots actually have a chance at winning some battles when you give them a gun. At last that?s how I would imagine it.
That they now do things that is not a smart move strategy-wise - may point towards the religious extremist side taking over/gaining power in the organisation, going forward with their "we cannot lose, God is on our side" belief.
And while I don?t wanna say in any way that terrorist attacks in the middle East, Europe, Russia or across the world are a good thing ... with General "God will guide us" at the helm, Daesh won?t be able to put up much of a fight ...
 
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narf

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Delll

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Some names have been coming in. The Parisian terrorist was called Isma?l Omar Mostefai (the first names swap places depending on source) (not Pierre Baguette Bonaparte, as I suspected) and someone else is called Abbdulakbak B. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996678/Paris-terror-attacks-victims-isil-suspects-Syria-arrests-live.html

A Finnish MEP posted this on Facebook. I'll attempt a shitty translation.
This is the 8th islamist terrorist attack in France this year. Islamist terrorist attacks on the same scale have happened in Madrid and London.

After every islamist terrorist attack people say that it will lead to a new era and that Europe will not be the same.

By saying this we want to make believe that each time it's a new and strange thing. What happened in Paris was not new or strange and it wasn't the beginning of a new era. Like after every other islamist terrorist attack, we'll march [demonstrate] for a short while against fear and for tolerance, and invent some je-suis-Paris thing which progressives can share as their Facebook picture. We can also tighten gun laws and bully natives.

Then the dust settles and this unpleasant topic is buried under Kim Kardashian's butt and other more important subjects until, in a few months, Mohammed decapitates, shoots or detonates somewhere. Once again Europe will step into a new era, and nothing will ever be the same, and we must not give in to fear, and borders mustn't be closed, because that's exactly what the terrorists want.
 

Delll

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You can read the text (in Finnish) here with the incriminating parts removed (but with their content described, in red). Basically he was convicted for mentioning that Mohammed was a pedophile (based on him consummating his marriage with what would be in today's world be considered an underage girl). Wikipedia: "The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham,[11] when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina.[12][13][14]" He also states that Somalis (though not all) steal and claim benefits more often than native Finns. Want to hear a joke? Freedom of speech.
 

Correspondent75

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Interesting piece on why ISIS, ISIL, IS is now being referred to as Daesh

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hear-president-obama-john-kerry-152232541.html

I agree that calling them "Islamic State" can appear to give them legitimacy as some sort of government or head of a nation
It's how french officials refers to Islamic state since the beginning .

Yesterday ,Saturday it was a bit of surreal with an almost empty town as opposed to a normal Saturday where the streets are packed. Today the city awakes a little bit with people coming out again , with people putting flowers or candles in the places of the attack.

For the future , however I wonder of the many implications :

I believe that there will many cancellations of tourist , how do you feel safe in a country that had two majors terrorist attack in 10 months , no better than Egypte or Tunisie . Maybe foreign investors will delayed or cancelled their investments.

There are regional elections early December , if the Front National is boasted by those events , the "other side" will say :see the french are this or that putting even more tension in the country which is the objective of those terrorists .
 
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LeVeL

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France Has Bombarded ISIS Caliphate Capital Of Raqqa



Today French fighter jets bombed a series of ISIS sites in Raqqa, Syria, in what officials described as a major bombardment.

The targets included a command center, a recruitment center, as well as an ammunition storage base and a training camp for the terror group, said Mickael Soria, press adviser for France?s defense minister.

ISIS claims Raqqa as the capital of its so-called caliphate. The airstrikes come two days after a series of terrorist attacks in Paris on Friday. ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attacks, which France?s President described as ?an act of war.?

Twelve aircraft, including 10 fighter jets, were involved in Sunday?s airstrikes, Reports CNN

Twenty bombs were dropped, they said, and all of the targets were destroyed.
:thumbsup:
 

LeVeL

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In other news, nearly 15% of my Facebook friends changed their pictures to the French flag. I have yet to see any Russia, Lebanese, Israeli, etc flags. Some terrorist attacks are more important than others, I guess.
 

Dr_Grip

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What I think would be really needed as much as bombing IS territory is finally forcing our business (and even NATO) partners like Turkey, Quatar and Saudi Arabia to stop more or less openly supplying the IS.
 

argatoga

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What I think would be really needed as much as bombing IS territory is finally forcing our business (and even NATO) partners like Turkey, Quatar and Saudi Arabia to stop more or less openly supplying the IS.
I don't see that happening. I suspect they are supporting ISIS due to Assad and Baghdad being allies with Iran. Although I think Turkey is more concerned with the Syrian-Kurds who are close to the PKK. They wouldn't mind ISIS fighting them as a proxy.

As for a reason for ISIS to take credit for the Paris bombings. ISIS just had a major defeat in Sinjar. Taking credit for what happened in Paris distracts the media from that news, and continues their media campaign of being a super-duper-awesome unbeatable crusade.
 

Dr_Grip

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I don't see that happening. I suspect they are supporting ISIS due to Assad and Baghdad being allies with Iran. Although I think Turkey is more concerned with the Syrian-Kurds who are close to the PKK. They wouldn't mind ISIS fighting them as a proxy.
That kind of "proxy warfare" thingy (Israel arming the Lebanese Al-Quaeda - to fight Hezbollah, the West arming rebels who have long since joined ISIS - to fight Assad, Turkey arming the IS the fight the Kurds) has long proved futile. They should just give that tactic up.

By the way, Germany is not cancelling any of their weapons deliveries to Quatar and Saudi-Arabia.
 

argatoga

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That kind of "proxy warfare" thingy (Israel arming the Lebanese Al-Quaeda - to fight Hezbollah, the West arming rebels who have long since joined ISIS - to fight Assad, Turkey arming the IS the fight the Kurds) has long proved futile. They should just give that tactic up.
We are talking about Erdogan, the man who recently renewed the conflict with the PKK to win a political majority.

By the way, Germany is not cancelling any of their weapons deliveries to Quatar and Saudi-Arabia.
To help them push back Iran's friends in Yemen, aid a sources of oil that isn't Russian, and make a good deal of money for Germany's military industry. IDEX just ended, I'm sure Saudi-Arabia and Quatar will have some new purchases coming up.
 

Dr_Grip

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[...]and make a good deal of money for Germany's military industry. IDEX just ended, I'm sure Saudi-Arabia and Quatar will have some new purchases coming up.
Quatar has been the second-largest customer of ther German military industry last year. The. second. largest. A country smaller than L.A..
 

Correspondent75

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First working day after the weekend : I am a maintenance guy currently dispatched in an engineering firm : a quiet and surreal situation , not many phone calls or email , a colleague of a different service entered our office devastated : one of his best friend died in the attack , from what he gathered he tried to protect his girlfriend and took a lethal blow , he said to us " I am like a robot , not thinking at anything".

The simple joy to speak to another colleague who lives right in the middle of the killing zone and who is ok as well as his family.
 
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