The Diesel discussion thread

Mr. Nice

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Since Mitlov's Your picks: the five best-engineered cars on sale today?
has been somewhat hi-jacked by a discussion on diesel powered vehicles, European taxation of diesel and the viability of diesel vehicles in the United States, this thread has been created to continue or add to that discussion.

The most recent post in what has become a huge thread derailment is located here
 

LeVeL

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From the UMass Motorsport car show this year:

http://pic.armedcats.net/l/le/level/2010/12/20/28907_1439361949897_1408475738_1168700_4590222_n.jpg

LBG's pic:
http://thumb.armedcats.net/l/la/labcoatguy/2010/05/01/IMG_1318.JPG

BECAUSE FUCK YOU AND YOUR PRIUS
 

narf

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I've to admit I find the German Umweltplakatte a good idea. As far as I know, CO2 emissions don't have anything to do with the color of the sticker, only the particle emissions that actually are unhealthy. For example most of the Stuttgart is in a valley, and it's forbidden to drive there without at least yellow sticker (meaning gasoline engine or quite modern diesel), so the air in the city doesn't get polluted by particle emissions caused by old smoky diesels without particle filters. It really has something to do with real emissions and not the CO2 shit.

The Umweltplakette goals are different from the climate change goals. The Umweltplakette officially wants to keep inner cities cleaner, improving the immediate air quality. You're still allowed to blow out particulate matter in the countryside or other cities. For climate change emissions it does not matter where you emit them, the effect is the same. For that we have things like the CO2 tax, increased fuel taxes, etc.




Also, yay modern diesels :dance:
 

Dr_Grip

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The Umweltplakette, as far as empirical evidence is concerned, has not changed anything about clean air here in Berlin (tl;dr on the link: the motorist's lobby says it's all bullshit, the politicians say even if there's no evidence, it still works).

Just like cash for clunkers and the upcoming interchangeable license plates, the Umweltplakette is a government program to give people incentives or force them to exchange their perfectly good used cars for new ones, thus helping the carmakers' sales, using "being green" as a storefront.
 

SpitfireMK461

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Modern diesels are really quite cool. You only need to look at Audi and Peugeot to see that. Where is my 908 road car?
 

narf

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The Umweltplakette, as far as empirical evidence is concerned, has not changed anything about clean air here in Berlin (tl;dr on the link: the motorist's lobby says it's all bullshit, the politicians say even if there's no evidence, it still works).

Just like cash for clunkers and the upcoming interchangeable license plates, the Umweltplakette is a government program to give people incentives or force them to exchange their perfectly good used cars for new ones, thus helping the carmakers' sales, using "being green" as a storefront.

Hence me saying it "officially wants to keep inner cities cleaner".


Where is my 908 road car?

 
Last edited:

Matt2000

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Interesting, I'd certainly like a Cummins diesel in my Land Rover. Even a Land Rover diesel would be nice.
 

Rossco

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From the UMass Motorsport car show this year:

http://pic.armedcats.net/l/le/level/2010/12/20/28907_1439361949897_1408475738_1168700_4590222_n.jpg

LBG's pic:
http://thumb.armedcats.net/l/la/labcoatguy/2010/05/01/IMG_1318.JPG

BECAUSE FUCK YOU AND YOUR PRIUS


My friend got a video of said truck.
 

thevictor390

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That license plate was icing on the cake :lol:

I loved how it was almost too wide for the dyno, only the inner wheels of the duallies were actually touching down.
 

LeVeL

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hansvonaxion

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The Umweltplakette, as far as empirical evidence is concerned, has not changed anything about clean air here in Berlin (tl;dr on the link: the motorist's lobby says it's all bullshit, the politicians say even if there's no evidence, it still works).

Not sure about that law and can't speak for Berlin, but I've lived in Tokyo for 10 years and during that time the Mayor introduced a law banning all diesels without particulate filters from Tokyo. As a biker it made a huge difference, I had to wear a filtration mask before, not so now. Trucks here don't have the high-rise exhausts, they spewed the diesel smoke over bikers, cyclists and pedestrians. I don't know about overall air quality but even that very localised effect was worth it.
 

captain_70s

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Diesels are good, I like them. Modern turbo diesels can be fucking fast too, and get decent fuel economy. My Dad's Skoda Octavia has a 1.9 turbo diesel (I think that's the smallest they offer), and that does 45+mpg, which isn't bad for a car of its size.

I'd also like something ironic like a Volvo 245 diesel that's as slow as Hell but amusingly stereotypical, and oh so very me.

The exhaust fumes can be unpleasant though, especially for people walking like me this morning. I was almost coughing this morning while passing traffic, although most of the problems were old 1990s cars spewing black smoke all over the place.
 

AiR

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banning all diesels without particulate filters

That's a no-brainer, DPF or better (combinations of SCR, EGR and DPF) should be (will become) mandatory on diesel powered vehicles. With them diesel surpasses petrol as an ideal fuel in every way that matters, without them it's only marginally better with the added fuel efficiency offset by the particles.

Discussion: Yay for diesel!
 

Bubs360

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I'm one of those "wish the U.S would get more diesel compact cars" guys. There are some really nice ones available to other countries that we aren't allowed to have for no apparent reason.
 
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