The European Refugee Situation

I find it amusing you're willing to blame about a millioner refugees in Europe for the actions of a comparative few.
That's not at all the case - I'm not Donald Trump (or Delll). The fact that SOME refugees are criminals does not mean that they ALL are but it certainly reinforces the idea that they ALL should've been very thoroughly screened before being allowed in. You can be humane without shooting yourself in the foot.
 
That's not at all the case - I'm not Donald Trump (or Delll). The fact that SOME refugees are criminals does not mean that they ALL are but it certainly reinforces the idea that they ALL should've been very thoroughly screened before being allowed in. You can be humane without shooting yourself in the foot.

That's fair enough.
 
You might remember that several thousands of them arrived here each day and that there was no way to register or even screen them properly.

The simple fact of the matter is that we were overrun and struggled with even organizing shelter for them. They still, for a big part, reside in sports halls or abandoned schools. Registering is slowly catching up but you'd be really naive if you think that it's that easy to check the background hundreds of thousands who come from a war zone. How do you do that anyway with a country like Syria that in many part has been blown to smithereens? Make a phone call to the Syrian registration office? Yeah, right.

For the time being humanitarian help was the only thing (and the more important thing) that could be organized. The fact that there may have been some unwanted visitors among the refugees, was and is a calculated risk.
 
You might remember that in 1939 several thousands of Germans arrived in Poland each day and that there was no way to register or even screen them properly.

The simple fact of the matter is that Poland were overrun and struggled with even organizing shelter for Poles. The Germans had guns and tanks and bombers and Poland had fucking cavalry. The Germans were very aggressive and you'd be really naive if you think that it's that easy to check the background hundreds of thousands of armed people who march over your destroyed positions. How do you do that anyway with a country like Germany that is intent on occupying yours? Make a phone call to the Wehrmacht? Yeah, right.

For the time surrendering was the only thing (and the more important thing) that could be organized. The fact that there may have been some unwanted visitors among the soldiers, was and is a calculated risk.

Only the asylum seekers mostly don't have guns. They mostly don't have enough money to be able to live better in Germany than in their (mostly safe) home countries without benefits. If you don't provide that, they won't come. Germany has borders. Germany has police and military to keep order. Remind yourself of the requirements for refugee status. You actually have to check their background anyway or the most generous country will soon have 1bn+ people.
 
What the hell are you on about?
 
What the hell are you on about?

Must be drugs. Or racism. Or stupidity.

I think all.

At the same time.

Some people were born stupid, then learn nothing and become what we call in technical terms "idiots". In Delll you have a prime example for everyone to study. And do you know what's funny? It doesn't seem to bother him how much he is making an ass of himself publically. I suppose he only hasn't been banned from the forum yet because someone must be the village idiot and he fits the profile perfectly.

And I must admit, in his dimwittedness he is almost undertaining.
 
Last edited:
I think Delll has a point actually. What MacGuffin described is that Europe is wide open and had zero control over its borders. I'd have to go through customs to enter Europe but someone from Syria can walk right in. Had history taught us nothing?? Do you guys realize how vulnerable your countries are to attack??


Must be drugs. Or racism. Or stupidity.

I think all.

At the same time.

Some people were born stupid, then learn nothing and become what we call in technical terms "idiots". In Delll you have a prime example for everyone to study. And do you know what's funny? It doesn't seem to bother him how much he is making an ass of himself publically. I suppose he only hasn't been banned from the forum yet because someone must be the village idiot and he fits the profile perfectly.

And I must admit, in his dimwittedness he is almost undertaining.
You're going way too far. Lay off the personal insults.
 
Insults? No, those are just the facts.
 
Last edited:
Must be drugs. Or racism. Or stupidity.

I think all.

At the same time.

Some people were born stupid, then learn nothing and become what we call in technical terms "idiots". In Delll you have a prime example for everyone to study. And do you know what's funny? It doesn't seem to bother him how much he is making an ass of himself publically. I suppose he only hasn't been banned from the forum yet because someone must be the village idiot and he fits the profile perfectly.

And I must admit, in his dimwittedness he is almost undertaining.
Nah, I'm not an idiot. The real idiots here are the 1049 Cologne victims (482 of which are sexual) (none of the suspects German). Finnish news sites are reporting that it says somewhere there or in Spiegel or Bild that there are 126 suspicions of gang rape.
 
I admit I did not read all the discussion in this thread, but I don't entirely understand the ongoing discussion about the crimes of the asylum seekers. What's the point? I mean, I'm sure everyone agrees that the processes in Europe connected to those people could and must be organised better. But what else can we do?

Amongst them there are unwanted visitors, some who do not really need a refuge, and some who are coming with malicious intents. But still, we have to take everyone seriously and investigate them. We just can't say to a group of people that we can't help anyone of them, because some of them don't need help. I think that as fellow human beings our only option is to investigate each persons situation as effectively as possible, and deal accordingly.

Also, I believe prejudices cause people to behave according to those prejudices. If we treat some group of people as criminals, they soon start to behave like criminals. I think every human being deserves to be treated as a valuable member of society, unless he/she proves to be something else. The said does not apply to how the state officials should do their asylum review processes, but it applies to how we as fellow human beings should treat each other.
 
Last edited:
[...] Finnish news sites are reporting that it says somewhere there or in Spiegel or Bild that there are 126 suspicions of gang rape.

It says that nowhere. A google news search also brings up that number only from international sources and I cannot figure out where they have these from.
So far, there have been 3 reported rapes from new years eve in possible connection to the sexual assaults. For reference - statistically there are 20 rapes brought to the attention of the police every day in germany. And about 140 cases of sexual assault.
 
There is a lot of bullshit going around.

For instance there is a rumor (mainly on Russian news) that refugees raped a thirteen-year-old girl in Berlin. German police has denied something like that ever took place -- with not much success. Today there was a demonstration in front of the cabinet office in Berlin to show solidarity with the alleged victim -- mainly Russian immigrants, it seems :rolleyes:

Apparently some media outside of Germany are using bullshit like that as cheap propaganda against refugees, garnishing it with so-called "proof" -- mainly shaken smartphone videos, which in this case have been proven to be from 2009...

It's the same old story: People have xenophobic prejudices and look for anything that seemingly justifies their idiotic world views, no matter how unreliable and shady the source is.
 
You might remember that in 1939 several thousands of Germans arrived in Poland each day and that there was no way to register or even screen them properly.

The simple fact of the matter is that Poland were overrun and struggled with even organizing shelter for Poles. The Germans had guns and tanks and bombers and Poland had fucking cavalry. The Germans were very aggressive and you'd be really naive if you think that it's that easy to check the background hundreds of thousands of armed people who march over your destroyed positions. How do you do that anyway with a country like Germany that is intent on occupying yours? Make a phone call to the Wehrmacht? Yeah, right.

For the time surrendering was the only thing (and the more important thing) that could be organized. The fact that there may have been some unwanted visitors among the soldiers, was and is a calculated risk.

Only the asylum seekers mostly don't have guns. They mostly don't have enough money to be able to live better in Germany than in their (mostly safe) home countries without benefits. If you don't provide that, they won't come. Germany has borders. Germany has police and military to keep order. Remind yourself of the requirements for refugee status. You actually have to check their background anyway or the most generous country will soon have 1bn+ people.

It's been a while since I read anything as retarded as that.
 
Oh be careful with "personal insults" or LeVel will throw cotton balls at you ;)
 
Larne trucker's fears after migrants stormed Calais ferry

A lorry driver from Northern Ireland has spoken of being caught up in chaotic scenes in Calais as migrants seeking to get to the UK stormed a ferry.

Stephen Millar from Larne watched on in horror on Saturday as the port was closed after 50 migrants boarded the vessel.

He said drivers' lives were being put at risk.

"I parked in the shipping lane. I heard lots of chanting and shouting to my right," he told the BBC.

"There were hundreds of migrants running towards me. I looked to my left. The security people in high-vis clothing were waving at me to get away, and they proceeded to run away."

The French port was closed on Saturday and services were disrupted overnight into Sunday as a result of the incident, which happened during a protest in support of the migrants.

Richard Burnett, chief executive of the Road Haulage Association, called on the French authorities to back "decisive action" and deploy soldiers at the port.

He said the incident was the latest in a string of recent incursions in Calais, warning it was "only a matter of time before our worst fears become a reality and a UK-bound truck driver is killed".

Last summer Mr Millar spoke of how he had to barricade himself in his vehicle during long delays in Calais due to the migrant crisis.

He said at the time: "You just think, is it really worth it? My friends ask why you put yourself through that.

"It's a shame, I like the job and like travelling, but every time you leave France to get back to the UK it is really nasty.

"We have to be really careful all around Europe."

France outlined its commitment to maintaining law and order after the migrants forced their way onto the ferry.

Security forces were drafted in after 350 of them blocked the port and some boarded P&O's Spirit Of Britain passenger ship.

Pictures posted on social media showed hundreds of people running towards the port and water cannon reportedly being used to get migrants to disembark.

French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said 26 migrants and nine activists were arrested, and 15 taken into custody.

Trouble flared after hundreds of people marched towards the port from the 'Jungle' site, where some 4,000 migrants and refugees are camped.

Mr Cazeneuve said mobile forces, supported by territorial units and border police, had been mobilised for several months to help secure the Calais camp.
 
The European Refugee Situation

Yes, that happens when you store refugees in prison camps: They try to break out.

Apparently NOT welcoming them doesn't work either.
 
Last edited:
Just curious, if you had had complete power over the situation, how would you have handled it? It sounds like you would step aside and say "come on in, make yourselves at home" but I don't want to assume, hence the question.

Interesting question actually. Personally if I had complete power over the situation concerning the refugees from syria and iraq, I would have the refugees taken in (all of them, you cannot put a number on something like that), distribute them equally across the EU and close states (russia, turkey etc) and make sure they have what they need including housing, food, health-care and (perhaps most important for their future) education.
The refugees on the other hand would have submit to strict registration & regulations like for example not being free to move across europe (or even the country they are assigned to), mandatory language & cultural courses to help integration. And when the conflict in their home country is over, they would have to go back - if asked to do so by their host-country (there may be some countries that want them to stay, others not).

I think there is a real obligation to help these people in need. On the other hand it must be clear that these people come as refugees, not immigrants.
 
The European Refugee Situation

No, I never said I have a recipe. But one thing is clear: In contrast to our politicians I would have prepared for the current situation at least 3 years ago. It didn't come suddenly or as a surprise. There have been tons of warnings and predictions from many sources.

And I would have implemented an immigration law/procedure for people who want to come here.

What to do now? I'd suggest following the German model on a European level. The whole situation only escalated because many countries forgot their Christian principles of compassion and sympathy and imitate the three apes -- see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing -- as if the problem somehow would disappear by doing nothing.

Well, doing nothing seems to only make it worse. So maybe there will be a learning curve from all this.

But frankly I haven't got high hopes.
 
Last edited:
Top