killpanda
wants to fondle your manboobs
Stupid rain 
Exam cancelled, they'll give me a new date within 14 days
Exam cancelled, they'll give me a new date within 14 days
The General Motorbikers Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Derek
- Start date
Handz
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- '98 Mustang GT, E39 530i Sport, '04 R6, '08 WR250X
One night I dreamed I was riding a motorcycle.
A few weeks later i picked up some boots and gloves, Took the California MSF class just for fun. Passed the riding test with a perfect score after never riding a motorcycle in my life. It felt amazing. The rush and freedom is addicting.
Took the the written test and got my M1 license.
Picked this up on craigslist for $3100. 2004 R6 with 20,000 miles in the better looking red. I have been riding for about a month now. I am totally enjoying it. I fit the 600cc bike perfectly. I read every thread about 1st bikes and people say get a 250cc bike.... But i feel the 600 was perfect and I have a strong respect for the bike. Cool dream for my to get on a motorcycle.
A few weeks later i picked up some boots and gloves, Took the California MSF class just for fun. Passed the riding test with a perfect score after never riding a motorcycle in my life. It felt amazing. The rush and freedom is addicting.
Took the the written test and got my M1 license.
Picked this up on craigslist for $3100. 2004 R6 with 20,000 miles in the better looking red. I have been riding for about a month now. I am totally enjoying it. I fit the 600cc bike perfectly. I read every thread about 1st bikes and people say get a 250cc bike.... But i feel the 600 was perfect and I have a strong respect for the bike. Cool dream for my to get on a motorcycle.
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In before 'you're going to drop it/crash/die'
I do agree that it's always better to start on something smaller or less powerfull. cause you can learn to ride more quickly and the margin for error is a bit bigger.
Be safe out there and take it easy
I do agree that it's always better to start on something smaller or less powerfull. cause you can learn to ride more quickly and the margin for error is a bit bigger.
Be safe out there and take it easy
Handz, every single new rider who got a 600+cc and subsequently wadded it thought they could handle the bike. Every. Single. One. It isn't about "respect", it is about ability and experience.
I hate to be the one who bites on the bait, but there is a reason so many experienced riders recommend smaller displacement bikes to new riders - and that doesn't mean it has to be an EX250. Right now there are a ton of new small to mid-displacement bikes on the market targeted at new riders. The simple fact is that most 600cc bikes have a very narrow window between "Weeee this is fun!" and "Oh shit, I'm crashing!" It takes experience to ride within this narrow margin of error, and that is something every new rider lacks, regardless of their respect for the bike. Smaller displacement bikes are simply more forgiving. They are not designed with racing regulations in mind the way many 600cc bikes (including the R6) are, they are lighter, easier to handle, have a more forgiving throttle response and power delivery, and more forgiving brakes.
The other reason to get a smaller, less powerful bike, is to highlight your own ability as a rider. Anyone with half a potato for a brain can get on a powerful bike and keep up by twisting the throttle in the straights. It takes real skill to keep up with those guys on a less powerful machine because you have to be better in the corners. A smaller bike teaches you that technique which you can then bring to a more powerful machine once you have developed your skills.
I've personally had to ride a CBR 600rr several hours home after a new rider dumped it after hitting a rough section of road and going into panic-mode. Had he been on a softer, more forgiving machine that would have become an object-lesson we would have talked about at the next stop, done some coaching and finished the ride. Instead, he panicked, gave an unforgiving bike too much input and chucked it down an embankment into a fence. He also talked about respecting the bike and his maturity, but he just didn't have the experience to manage that type of machine.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I am saying it because I genuinely don't want you to get hurt or lose your investment in the bike.
The best things you can do from here:
I hate to be the one who bites on the bait, but there is a reason so many experienced riders recommend smaller displacement bikes to new riders - and that doesn't mean it has to be an EX250. Right now there are a ton of new small to mid-displacement bikes on the market targeted at new riders. The simple fact is that most 600cc bikes have a very narrow window between "Weeee this is fun!" and "Oh shit, I'm crashing!" It takes experience to ride within this narrow margin of error, and that is something every new rider lacks, regardless of their respect for the bike. Smaller displacement bikes are simply more forgiving. They are not designed with racing regulations in mind the way many 600cc bikes (including the R6) are, they are lighter, easier to handle, have a more forgiving throttle response and power delivery, and more forgiving brakes.
The other reason to get a smaller, less powerful bike, is to highlight your own ability as a rider. Anyone with half a potato for a brain can get on a powerful bike and keep up by twisting the throttle in the straights. It takes real skill to keep up with those guys on a less powerful machine because you have to be better in the corners. A smaller bike teaches you that technique which you can then bring to a more powerful machine once you have developed your skills.
I've personally had to ride a CBR 600rr several hours home after a new rider dumped it after hitting a rough section of road and going into panic-mode. Had he been on a softer, more forgiving machine that would have become an object-lesson we would have talked about at the next stop, done some coaching and finished the ride. Instead, he panicked, gave an unforgiving bike too much input and chucked it down an embankment into a fence. He also talked about respecting the bike and his maturity, but he just didn't have the experience to manage that type of machine.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I am saying it because I genuinely don't want you to get hurt or lose your investment in the bike.
The best things you can do from here:
- Find a group of experienced, mature, and responsible riders and see if they will welcome a new guy. Many experienced riders balk at riding with people unfamiliar to them because they don't know if you are a liability on the road. It may take time to get to know them socially before you ride together.
- Be open to pointers and instructions from others, but be careful! Not all advice is good advice!
- Squids: Don't be one, learn how to spot them, avoid them.
- Ride in ideal conditions for a while. Riding in suboptimal conditions will come with experience, for now work on your technique without having to worry about rain or gravel.
- Have fun! Riding is supposed to be fun! Never ride because you feel you have to, only because you want to.
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Handz
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Here is the reason I got the R6. I really appreciate the input, thats why i posted here. The thing about the R6 is (in my mind) that i have the same percentage chance of laying it as a 250, 300, 500, or 1000 bike.
1. I would have gotten bored with the 250 and had to sell it, and then find another bike. For me, I like buying vehicles and keeping them for a long time. Selling vehicles to buy another one takes alot of time for me.
2. I rode the 250, and honestly, it was the same weight, feel, and style of the R6.
3. I felt more comfortable on the R6.
4. I am not trying to be all rossi and canyon carve, I use the bike right now to hop around to the store, school, and work.
5. I live in Los Angeles, so traffic moves slow and lane splitting is legal.... So even if i had a slower 250 or 300cc bike, I have the same chance of getting hit by a car.
6. The R6 feels like a 250 riding around under 10,000 RPMs..... and i usually never drive more than 8K.
7. The R6 was cheaper or the same price as the 250ninja or CBR250r or 650R ninja.... So i just got the R6.
I understand the concept of starting on a slower bike, but this bike feels very forgiving when i compared riding the 250 ninja. It doesnt feel like a "Race Bike" at all. I had the suspension sag adjusted to my weight and made softer for commuting so it feels very nice on the street.
I take this riding very serious. I purchased full gear. I wear a bright yellow safety vest to be seen. I bought a bright red bike to be seen. The thing about Los Angeles is that the risk is not over using the power and laying down the bike, the risk is a car not seeing you and hitting you..... and this risk is the same percentage no matter what bike I chose.
Hopefully that makes sense.
1. I would have gotten bored with the 250 and had to sell it, and then find another bike. For me, I like buying vehicles and keeping them for a long time. Selling vehicles to buy another one takes alot of time for me.
2. I rode the 250, and honestly, it was the same weight, feel, and style of the R6.
3. I felt more comfortable on the R6.
4. I am not trying to be all rossi and canyon carve, I use the bike right now to hop around to the store, school, and work.
5. I live in Los Angeles, so traffic moves slow and lane splitting is legal.... So even if i had a slower 250 or 300cc bike, I have the same chance of getting hit by a car.
6. The R6 feels like a 250 riding around under 10,000 RPMs..... and i usually never drive more than 8K.
7. The R6 was cheaper or the same price as the 250ninja or CBR250r or 650R ninja.... So i just got the R6.
I understand the concept of starting on a slower bike, but this bike feels very forgiving when i compared riding the 250 ninja. It doesnt feel like a "Race Bike" at all. I had the suspension sag adjusted to my weight and made softer for commuting so it feels very nice on the street.
I take this riding very serious. I purchased full gear. I wear a bright yellow safety vest to be seen. I bought a bright red bike to be seen. The thing about Los Angeles is that the risk is not over using the power and laying down the bike, the risk is a car not seeing you and hitting you..... and this risk is the same percentage no matter what bike I chose.
Hopefully that makes sense.
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argatoga
Can't Start His Wank
What I believe Dave was trying to say is that while you may have an equal chance of dropping a 600 compared to a 250, your chance of doing more harm in the process is higher with the former. If you panic and twist the throttle hard a 250 would result in a better outcome.
Handz
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I understand this very well. I have never panicked and grabbed the throttle, nor have I ever panicked and floored a car. The R6 feels good for a first bike for me because its has no torque and very little power down low.... So even if i am at a low RPM and twist the throttle wide open, nothing really happens. I can be at 4-5K, go WOT and nothing really happens. Yes, it accelerates, but not very quickly. All the power on this bike is up high, so i gotta be about 8 or 10K for stuff to get tricky.
If i panicked at 13,000 RPMs and twisted the throttle hard I could see something bad happening.... But i gotta be trying to be stupid for that to happen when 90% of the time i cruise around at super low RPMs.
I do fully understand what is being said, and I really appreciate the input since I am new to riding.
Anesthesia
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This is true. It might happen soon after you start riding. Might take years. Personally I hope the scars I got on my bike 15 years ago cover this. Even though it was a "moped" it was far from it. Well the brakes were, and that made it a proper death trap.
Handz,
The decision is yours. That being said there is a lot of collective wisdom and experience in here (and other places) about riding. I've been riding for over a decade and that includes California traffic and lane-sharing. If you decide to reject the wisdom and experience that has been offered, then you are free to do so. I have read many, many posts over the years that sound just like what you posted and almost every single time the rider ends up with a very nice CBR or R6 with one side rashed up - or worse, sticking out of a car.
There are many different things that go into making a bike manageable, and displacement is a very, very small part of that. Also, the fastest, and best riders I know still rock small displacement bikes.
The decision is yours. That being said there is a lot of collective wisdom and experience in here (and other places) about riding. I've been riding for over a decade and that includes California traffic and lane-sharing. If you decide to reject the wisdom and experience that has been offered, then you are free to do so. I have read many, many posts over the years that sound just like what you posted and almost every single time the rider ends up with a very nice CBR or R6 with one side rashed up - or worse, sticking out of a car.
There are many different things that go into making a bike manageable, and displacement is a very, very small part of that. Also, the fastest, and best riders I know still rock small displacement bikes.
Handz
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Blind, i really appreciate your input. I am taking it very seriously.
The bikes i did consider were...
250R Honda
650R Kawi
600RR
VFR750
I know that I might drop the bike... I understand this. But i understand I might drop any bike. It can happen. I just wanted a cheap bike that i could ride and if I drop it i wouldnt freak out. This bike fit the bill. Plus the look and feel of the bike is great.
The bikes i did consider were...
250R Honda
650R Kawi
600RR
VFR750
I know that I might drop the bike... I understand this. But i understand I might drop any bike. It can happen. I just wanted a cheap bike that i could ride and if I drop it i wouldnt freak out. This bike fit the bill. Plus the look and feel of the bike is great.
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SickGuy
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Here's my new CBR600F (with a friend's SP1).
It's good fun and feels very stable in the twisties, though not nearly as agile as my old GPZ/Ninja 500.
And I'm in agreement with Blind on the current discussion. I have 4 years and 20,000 miles of riding experience, and even I find the CBR a bit of a handful. I can't imagine starting out on one.
It's good fun and feels very stable in the twisties, though not nearly as agile as my old GPZ/Ninja 500.
And I'm in agreement with Blind on the current discussion. I have 4 years and 20,000 miles of riding experience, and even I find the CBR a bit of a handful. I can't imagine starting out on one.
I'm far less concerned with dropping the bike as I am a high-speed crash. The vast majority of riders crash by either 1) overcooking a corner or 2) having a car turn left in front of them. Both of these scenarios are made much, much worse with speed and straight line speed is something that is easy to do on a 600 cc. The other problems are things like throttle response and power delivery. The VFR750 has a very flat and predictable power curve, which is one of the reasons that even after 10+ years of riding my bike of choice is a VFR. It's not possible to go through every scenario in which an R6 or similar track-oriented bike will get a new rider into trouble.
But like I said, the choice is yours. I hope that you become the exception to the rule and become a safe and highly competent rider - but you will be the exception. Right now you think you will be the exception, just like all the other new riders I have tried to convince not to buy a 600cc track-oriented bike.
Handz
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i rode a VFR750 and the R6 and they felt very similar. Honestly, the VFR felt more hardcore because of the flat torque curve.
The VFR is more predictable. The R6, like the CBR600 and other track oriented bikes, have a very peaky power curve. This results in a spike of power and torque - often at around 9-10K RPM. This can quickly unsettle a bike or cause it to break traction and it takes a skilled rider to manage it. The VFR has more low-down in the revs than the 600cc track bikes, but the delivery is linear and predictable. It still isn't a good bike for a beginner but there is less "bite" to the VFR than the R6 and CBR600.
Yeah, I know. I just hate going through this again, every time a new rider buys a track style bike he thinks he is somehow exceptional and that his "attitude and maturity" somehow equate to skill and experience. Advice be damned, the word of skilled and experienced riders be damned, the fact that the fastest guys on the planet started building their skills with small bikes be damned - every squidlet thinks he's Bruce Lee, Stoner, and Iron Man all rolled into one.