The Gun thread

[ScarFace88]

Has anyone shot an FN SCAR? Are they worth the ~$2500 they cost?

 

[LeVeL]

OATH Expanding and Fragmenting Slugs

Taking 12ga to a whole new level of destruction.

12ga slugs have been rightly known as good stoppers on dangerous game, but tend to over-penetrate in hominids. OATH Ammunition has two new designs that solve over-penetration along with greatly improving reliability in box-fed shotguns.

Above is their 1.25oz 1600fps all-copper slug designed to expand to an incredible 2.5? and penetrate just enough to punch through a hostile human with little energy left to harm anyone downrange. If you?ve ever heard the expression: ?a hole big enough to toss a cat through,? consider that cats can fit any opening larger than their heads, and smaller breeds have heads under 2.5? in circumference. The copper or aluminum expander die visible in the middle ensures reliable opening even through heavy clothing. The die itself penetrates deeper than the expanded slug.

Loaded in machined brass cases, these cartridges won?t deform out of round under spring pressure even in 10 or 12 shot box magazines of shotguns like MKA1919 or Saiga. These photos show display samples. The actual production slugs have sharp leading edges. These will be available in 2.75? length and also in 2? for tube shotguns that can feed shorter ammunition and would benefit from additional capacity.

The billet machined cases don?t suffer from stress cracks like the drawn variety and have been tested to 1,000+ reloads with no measurable degradation. In both WW1, WW2, and Vietnam, US Army used paper or plastic hulled shells and found them lacking in resistance to humidity, eventually going to brass. The OATH loads just starts out right. Having solved the challenge of making machined reloadable aluminum cases, OATH will also offer ballistically matched practice loads at lower price than these premium shells.

The frangible slug is enormously heavy at 2.25oz but slower?1200fps?so that the muzzle energy of the two loads is similar at 3100ft-lbs. Upon impact, this all-brass (except for the 40 grain copper expander die) projectile breaks up into half-dozen 158 grain sharp triangular pieces, each spreading about 15 degrees to the side of the initial direction. Penetration is likewise limited to the depth of a rib cage, producing very good stopping effect without over penetration.

On the left, experimental expanding slug with a flat die, on the right, the fragmenting slug. Both may be fired from a smooth bore with roughly two inch dispersion at 25 yards, but rifled shotguns are ideal for best accuracy. The lighter projectile has been tested to yield groups under 2 inches at 100 yards with Remington 870 Deer Gun. Precise machining and jacket-less monolithic construction have their pluses.

The high energy and impressive precision turn modern rifled shotguns into light safari rifles, suitable for most North American game at short range and eminently functional for defensive social use. Just don?t fire them from lightweight single shot or side by side shotguns?your shoulder won?t like it! In a gas operated autoloader or a defensive pump with a full-length tube, recoil is far more reasonable.

Both of these loads will be available for purchase on OATH web site by the end of January 2016.

Want!

 

[Blind_Io]

I will hold off and wait for independent ballistics tests. There have been lots of novelty ammunitions introduced in the last few years, almost none of them live up to the hype.

 

[maxtortheone]

 

[Redliner]

Titanium is pretty strong, yo.

This guy knows how to spend money.
Those Henry rifles look so nice. Also, a .50 rifle is the most stupid, overpowered penile compensation device I've ever seen and I need one. Those sparks! :lol:

 

[LeVeL]

Titanium is pretty strong, yo.

This guy knows how to spend money.
Those Henry rifles look so nice. Also, a .50 rifle is the most stupid, overpowered penile compensation device I've ever seen and I need one. Those sparks! :lol:

A .50 is the gun equivalent of the Lamborghini LM002 - stupid expensive to buy, stupid expensive to use, rare, utterly useless, looks ridiculous... but let's be honest here, who wouldn't want one if they could afford it?

 

[Redliner]

A .50 is the gun equivalent of the Lamborghini LM002 - stupid expensive to buy, stupid expensive to use, rare, utterly useless, looks ridiculous... but let's be honest here, who wouldn't want one if they could afford it?

I am not a fan ot the LM002, but I completely agree with the analogy.

 

[Spectre]

Out here in the wide open spaces away from the crowded coasts, the .50 BMG does actually have a valid role in hunting - especially up in mountainous Colorado way. It's useful for very long range shots, which is what you often get in such country. They're used for elk, deer, moose... and in Texas, some people use them on wild hogs because those damn things sometimes actually *do* take military grade weaponry to kill.

That one was 500lbs. And yes, that's a large caliber modern sporting rifle (AR-10 variant, looks like) he used to take it with - one of those 'evil assault rifles' according to some.

Yes, they get bigger than that. They're all fast, mean and lethal.

 

[Redliner]

 

[Spectre]

The Gun thread

No, really, they get bigger.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogzilla

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/0...1-pound-monster-pig-bigger-than-hogzilla.html

That last one took eight rounds from a .50 caliber revolver (which to be fair is lower powered than the .50BMG by at least an order of magnitude) , ran away for three hours, was finally cornered and shot one more time at point blank to end it.

Still think the .50 BMG is useless in the real world?

Feral hogs like that are why I have my built-up FAL.

 

[LeVeL]

Out here in the wide open spaces away from the crowded coasts, the .50 BMG does actually have a valid role in hunting - especially up in mountainous Colorado way. It's useful for very long range shots, which is what you often get in such country. They're used for elk, deer, moose... and in Texas, some people use them on wild hogs because those damn things sometimes actually *do* take military grade weaponry to kill.

That one was 500lbs. And yes, that's a large caliber modern sporting rifle (AR-10 variant, looks like) he used to take it with - one of those 'evil assault rifles' according to some.

Yes, they get bigger than that. They're all fast, mean and lethal.

That's probably .50 Beowulf, not .50 BMG.

You do not need .50 BMG to hunt anything on this planet.

 

[Spectre]

No, dude. People hog hunt with .50BMG as well as .50AE, .500S&W, .50 Beowulf, etc. There are guys that have used rounds like the Beowulf or the 45-70 that have found them to be wanting.

There are animals on the North American continent that yes, a .50 BMG is actually a good idea to use on them.

 

[LeVeL]

I find it hard to believe that a .30-06 or .338 Win Mag is inadequate for a hog - they're popular Kodiak rounds, for G-d's sake! Then again in my state a .223 is plenty

 

[LiveToWin]

I think the standard is "I really don't want this angry hog to turn around and gore me, so let's make damn sure it dies right away" rather than what will or will not kill a hog under normal circumstances.

They are remarkably sturdy animals.

 

[Der Stig]

I think the standard is "I really don't want this angry hog to turn around and gore me, so let's make damn sure it dies right away" rather than what will or will not kill a hog under normal circumstances.

They are remarkably sturdy animals.

This. Their skulls are very thick (hurr hurr) and there are some insanely huge and resilient ones. You want to make your one shot count.

 

[Spectre]

I find it hard to believe that a .30-06 or .338 Win Mag is inadequate for a hog - they're popular Kodiak rounds, for G-d's sake! Then again in my state a .223 is plenty

I think the standard is "I really don't want this angry hog to turn around and gore me, so let's make damn sure it dies right away" rather than what will or will not kill a hog under normal circumstances.

They are remarkably sturdy animals.

Pretty much this. Also, Lev, you need to keep in mind that not all hunting is done for sport or for food. Hunting can also be done to control the population of dangerous animals - hogs will attack livestock, barnyard animals, pets and yes, humans. That's one reason my FAL is built the way it is - my friend's ranch in South Texas is often overrun with feral hogs and they do attack both his animals and his family. My FAL is set up for me to go sit up on top of his barn and take the damn things out as they enter the cleared lands around his buildings on occasional pest eradication trips. No, I'm not crazy enough to go looking for the damn things in the brush, but I completely understand those people carrying chopped down Barretts and such to do so. Sometimes one .308 NATO to the head is *not* enough to drop a feral hog, believe it or not - but I've never heard of one not dropping from a .50 BMG hit. As LiveToWin points out, you really don't want to just make the hog angry, still able to easily come gore and kill you.

- - - Updated - - -

This. Their skulls are very thick (hurr hurr) and there are some insanely huge and resilient ones. You want to make your one shot count.

Boars also develop a 'wonderful' hard armor-like shoulder plate on each side when they get over 125lbs. Some rounds and some angles will result in a rifle round just bouncing the hell off the hog's shoulder. A big boar facing you head on is more than a little like a tank bow on to you.

Level: These things are an invasive species that are dangerous pests in every sense of the word (they also carry lethal diseases and parasites so they're often not edible), not game animals. And they're overrunning Texas. http://www.chron.com/sports/outdoors/article/Texas-losing-war-on-feral-hogs-4685490.php

I'll be even more explicit: Feral hogs hunt and kill people even when they're not being hunted themselves.

They're reproducing faster than we can hunt them 'conventionally'; some people have resorted to bait and legal binary/impact explosives like Tannerite to eliminate groups of hogs out of desperation.

No, this isn't hunting, nor would I claim it to be. This is pest extermination, just like you'd exterminate plague-carrying rats.

I say again - feral hogs *are* an animal that sometimes require military grade equipment to safely hunt and eliminate.

 

[Blind_Io]

We have two Henry rifles in the house, both are excellent and I want to add another to the safe.

 

[Der Stig]

We have two Henry rifles in the house, both are excellent and I want to add another to the safe.

I've been thinking about picking up a Golden Boy in .22, but have heard that their recent models have had QC issues. Any particular models to seek out?

 

[Blind_Io]

I have not heard that, but then we already have a .22 Henry (just not a Golden Boy). I bought it for Kiki several years ago and it has never had a problem. I also have a .44 Mag Big Boy which has also run flawlessly, although it sometimes gets a bit picky about ammo, some rounds don't like to feed because they were designed for a revolver and not a lever action. It will eat most ammo though, even the soft lead I've been running through it recently.

 

[Redliner]

We have two Henry rifles in the house, both are excellent and I want to add another to the safe.

When he picked up the Henry I immediately thought of you.