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Spectre

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The Gun thread

What does the ATF have to do with the front pin?

Nothing that I know of (other than the ATF's usual making up offenses and shit - some ATF agents believe that drilling any hole anywhere on any semiauto rifle is an illegal conversion to a machine gun, though it is not except in certain locations on certain guns.) I didn't say anything about the ATF. This is a Colt civilian rifle - from 67-2004 they almost all had the big .315" pins front and rear so you couldn't put a mil-standard or aftermarket upper on a Colt lower. (Standard pins are .250".) This was something Colt did of their own accord on their civilian rifles, part of them spending decades pissing on the civilian market.
 
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LeVeL

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Der Stig posted an ATF guy :dunno:


Nothing that I know of (other than the ATF's usual making up offenses and shit - some ATF agents believe that drilling any hole anywhere on any semiauto rifle is an illegal conversion to a machine gun, though it is not except in certain locations on certain guns.)
They must faint when they see 80% lowers :lol:
 

Spectre

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Der Stig posted an ATF guy :dunno:



They must faint when they see 80% lowers :lol:

DS was probably alluding to the idiot ATF agents that I mentioned in my edited post above.

And no, they don't faint. They just 'mistakenly' arrest you, seize and destroy or sell off your stuff under asset forfeiture, and then shrug when they're found to be in the wrong.

FYI, the ATF says you cannot legally complete an 80% lower with a CNC machine. If you do, you're an unlicensed manufacturer; any build party with a CNC present (even if it is not used) is unlicensed manufacture and such parties are subject to arrest, asset forfeiture and imprisonment.


Some ATF offices consider *any* 80% build party of any kind, CNC or not, to be illegal. Reference, one of many: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=750262
 

Spectre

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You just need a drill press and a jig. Takes some degree of precision but it's not rocker science.

I'm aware of that, but those are additional expense, usually more than renting time on a friendly machine shop's gear, which was formerly permitted by ATF. Then they changed their mind.
 

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Blind_Io

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Send it to me for reassembly and uhh testing :D

It is a completely fuxored Rossi. It isn't worth putting together.
 

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You know what they say: "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Agreed. I got Blind a BAFTE christmas once. For the E, I couldn't order tannerite off of Amazon, so he got a firecracker instead. :lol:
 

LeVeL

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Agreed. I got Blind a BAFTE christmas once. For the E, I couldn't order tannerite off of Amazon, so he got a firecracker instead. :lol:
Firecrackers are illegal in Massachusetts, even empty casings need a license to possess, cigarettes are subjected to the 4th highest tax in the country, and the sale of alcohol on Sunday wasn't allowed until a few years ago. Oh, and forget about tannerite altogether. I need to move.


 

Blind_Io

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Hey, at least the legal BAC is still .08. Utah passed a bill to lower it to .05
 

Redliner

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Hey, at least the legal BAC is still .08. Utah passed a bill to lower it to .05

0.05 is also the limit here, because that is considered within the possible error in the measurement.
The letter of the law says zero.
 

LeVeL

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A club here in Massachusetts is currently dealing with this:

Gun club's half-mile-long rifle range has Belchertown, Granby homeowners on edge
Updated on July 30, 2017 at 8:06 AM Posted on July 30, 2017 at 7:30 AM
07.24.2017 | BELCHERTOWN -- Belchertown resident Diana Weldon, at left, expresses her concerns about the Granby Bow and Gun Club during the Belchertown selectmen's meeting. Her husband, Darrell Weldon is seated beside her.
07.24.2017 | BELCHERTOWN -- Belchertown resident Diana Weldon, at left, expresses her concerns about the Granby Bow and Gun Club during the Belchertown selectmen's meeting. Her husband, Darrell Weldon is seated beside her.(JIM RUSSELL PHOTO)
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By Jim Russell

Special to The Republican

BELCHERTOWN -- Alleged public safety and environmental concerns involving a 1,015-yard high-powered rifle range installed at the Granby Bow and Gun Club have residents of two towns up in arms.

Accusations of booming guns causing their windows to shake, concerns about stray bullets, fears of getting shot and allegations of problematic tree cutting were aired at Monday's Belchertown selectmen's meeting. Belchertown and Granby residents vociferously complained about the gun club and the club's alleged lack of concern for nearby Granby and Belchertown homeowners.

Robin LaBorde, of 88 Chicopee St., Granby, attended the July 24 Belchertown selectmen's meeting to voice concerns about the club, claiming stray bullets have become a hazard.

In a letter, he said neighbors living near the facility are "subject to missed bullets entering their land causing a very dangerous situation."

LaBorde wrote: "The screeching noise is deafening. It randomly happens after dark at any day, week or time. This noise appears to be echoing from the club grounds and sounds like it is either in our front or back yard."

Belchertown residents Darrell Weldon and his wife, Diana, who reside on Barton Avenue, said the blast from shooting rattles their windows.

Darrell Weldon said that previously the club had been "very good neighbors."

He said that youth often ride all-terrain vehicles through the property of the club, and irrespective of whether they are allowed on the land, they are at risk of being shot.

Weldon also said that a large number of trees were cut, and questioned whether appropriate rules were followed. He said the noise appears to have calmed down within the past week.

In an email to Belchertown selectmen dated July 6, the Wheldons lodged a formal complaint against the club with the town.

"Bad enough they stripped the mountain of beautiful foliage ... we can hear what sounds like an assault rifle with multiple shots very frequently. What is being done to address this?" the Weldons wrote.

The Weldons' residence is near the Granby town line and proximate to the club.

Belchertown selectmen, after hearing residents complain about the situation, said two members of their board would attend the next Granby selectmen's meeting, scheduled Aug. 7, and that if a "soft" approach failed to fix the problem, they were prepared to take a "hard" approach, although they did not specify what that might be.

Granby Bow and Gun Club's website says members have access to a 1,015-yard firing range -- "The ONLY 1000+ yard rifle range in New England that is accessible to its members!"
ADVERTISING

The club, at 85 Chicopee St. in Granby, was founded on April 4, 1947, according to the organization's president, Andre Mercier, and Debi Mercier, the group's secretary, who is his wife.

The couple was contacted on Tuesday by The Republican.

"We have tried to resolve things with the people of Granby. We are trying to be good neighbors (and) we are very much involved in our community," Debi Mercier said in a conference call with her husband.

"We didn't think we needed an attorney, but this situation seems to be growing, and we wanted to be fair," she said. The couple said they would attend the Aug. 7 Granby selectmen's meeting.

Guns Inc. breaks ground for shooting range next to White Hut

Guns Inc. breaks ground for shooting range next to White Hut

Owner E. David Knapik said shooters will be able to fire up to a .50-caliber round.

The Merciers declined to respond to specific questions, such as how many members are part of the club and when the nearly half-mile rifle range opened to shooters. They would not dislcose the amount of land the club encompasses. They did not respond to questions about alleged environmental problems. Instead, they referred questions to their attorney, Edward F. George, Jr., who has an office in Woburn.

In an interview on Wednesday, George said he had not yet toured the facility with his clients, but planned to do so prior to the Granby selectmen's meeting, which he said he would attend.

The lawyer said there was not a lot he could share at this time, owing to attorney-client privilege, but said he would "make every effort to resolve the issues."

The lawyer's website says his areas of expertise include: "Sportsman's Club Representation in Multiple Safety, Environmental, Liability and Nuisance (sound and noise) Cases."

In a telephone interview following the Belchertown meeting, Granby Town Administrator Christopher Martin said municipal officials are currently investigating the controversy, including whether the decibel level of gunshots violate the community's sound ordinance. He said the town's zoning enforcement officer is actively involved.

"It is an issue the Granby Board of Selectmen is addressing. We have been investigating," Martin said.

The administrator said the matter will be on the board's Aug. 7 agenda, adding, "Hopefully we have representatives from Granby Bow and Gun Club present."

Martin said that while he hopes the matter can be resolved soon, the town's counsel is reviewing the town's options, should a legal response be required. He did not say what those options might include.

Asked about the tree cutting and the notice of intent the club filed in May with the Granby Conservation Commission, Martin said the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection "is conducting an investigation (regarding) any potential violations."
What "screeching"? Why are you letting your kids trespass on private property, especially when it's an active gun range? So many questions...
 
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Redliner

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Let me guess: the club was built in land that was far from everyone, to avoid noise complaints, etc.
People move near the club because land was cheap and now are "concerned" about the noise, stray bullets etc. :rolleyes:

It's the same shit with racetracks and airports.
They have been there for DECADES, but now people buy cheap land nearby and suddenty "Oh my, this noise issue must be addressed..."
Ugh, give me a break.
 

LeVeL

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Pretty much. The club's been around since the 40s I think. I will say this: they only recently expanded beyond 1000 yards, which involved cutting down trees and moving the firing line slightly uphill, so I'm sure noise level has actually increased. However, that has nothing to do with the concerns voiced regarding trespassing. Also, some of these houses are a mile away and they claim that shots are shaking their windows, which I don't believe. Also, the bit about finding stray bullets in their yards is utter crap - if that actually happened, they would get the range shut down really, really fast. Some of the noise complaints might be real, albeit greatly exhaggerated, and the club is considering putting up sound barriers.
 
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CrzRsn

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Also, some of these houses are a mile away and they claim that shots are shaking their windows, which I don't believe.

Does the club regularly host cast iron 42-pounder cannon shoots? You know, for the 18th century naval artillery enthusiast? That might do it :p

Also, the bit about finding stray bullets in their yards is utter crap - if that actually happened, they would get the range shut down really, really fast.

Looking at the range I shoot at most frequently. The skeet firing line faces a major freeway and is 1100 feet away. There has not been a single "stray bullet." ever. The rifle/pistol lanes are about 1400 feet from the freeway.

Pzdxuwx.png


As far as noise, I know people that move in within a 2 or 3 mile radius are forced to sign a form saying they acknowledge the fact that they're moving in close to an outdoor gun range and there is some chance to hear gunfire during the range's business hours (as late as 8pm depending on the day of the week). That said, I was at my buddies house a while back, which is 1.5miles as the crow flies and couldn't hear a single thing.

Looking at Granby, the closest houses in the line of fire are 3800ft away and past a rather substantial looking berm

Ehgr3HD.png

CsJDpCl.png


While the closes houses in general are about 1200 feet IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION

slxTh7V.png


So yeah, MAYBE I can see that noise will be a problem. Though if the club has been there since the 40s, then the people are just being assholes.

I'm still more worried about the kids playing on the gun club's property.

Sidenode: Its a bit creepy at how good the new Google Maps is with 3D mapping. I was looking at the parking lot at work, and they tried to 3D model every individual car in the parking lot. I even found my Mustang. Also found my Jeep and my ex-Miata in my apartoment complex parking lot, also modeled.

EDIT: Found a house about 800 feet from the firing line. But not in the line of fire. They'd have the best argument against noise.

EDIT2:

Let me guess: the club was built in land that was far from everyone, to avoid noise complaints, etc.
People move near the club because land was cheap and now are "concerned" about the noise, stray bullets etc. :rolleyes:

It's the same shit with racetracks and airports.
They have been there for DECADES, but now people buy cheap land nearby and suddenty "Oh my, this noise issue must be addressed..."
Ugh, give me a break.

Just checked when all the houses around the club were built on Zillow. The oldest in the area went up in 1955 (after the club was opened) but most were built in the mid 2000s. The houses that are on the other side (downrange 3800 feet away) were all put up in the late 80s/early 90s.
 
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Blind_Io

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I don't care when they were built, if you buy a property that is near

  • the airport
  • the race track
  • the freeway
  • sewage treatment facilities
  • livestock feed lots
  • slaughter houses
  • hospital landing pads
  • fire stations

then you can Shut. The Fuck. Up. about environmental complaints. You knew about it when you moved it, which is why you paid less than a home without those environmental concerns. The next city slicker I hear complain about the smell or sound of cows around the McMansion they built out in the rural parts of the state is going to get fucking slapped.
 

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A club here in Massachusetts is currently dealing with this:


What "screeching"? Why are you letting your kids trespass on private property, especially when it's an active gun range? So many questions...

What a bunch of retaaaahds.
 

LeVeL

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I don't care when they were built, if you buy a property that is near

  • the airport
  • the race track
  • the freeway
  • sewage treatment facilities
  • livestock feed lots
  • slaughter houses
  • hospital landing pads
  • fire stations

then you can Shut. The Fuck. Up. about environmental complaints. You knew about it when you moved it, which is why you paid less than a home without those environmental concerns. The next city slicker I hear complain about the smell or sound of cows around the McMansion they built out in the rural parts of the state is going to get fucking slapped.
This is what they do: move next to an active range, complain to the town using bullshit grievances (e.g. bullets land in my cereal bowl, my kids trespass on private property and it's dangerous, etc), and ranges get shut down or forced to put up expensive barriers, such as no blue skies.

Again, there is some legitimacy to the noise concern with this particular club. For decades the range was only a couple of hundred yards and it was only recently extended past a thousand, which involved cutting trees and elevating the firing line uphill, both of which add noise. Also, the ability to shoot at that distance is virtually unheard of in the Northeast so a lot of new members are now shooting there. What aggravates me is the made-up complaints. Literally three walls and a roof right over the firing line would solve the noise issue but no, these idiots have to make up all the other crap to try and get the entire facility shut down.

As an aside, you know what else would decrease noise? If this state allowed suppressors. But no, "silencers" look scary in movies and since we can't be bothered to actually find out anything about them, they remain banned.
 
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CrzRsn

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I don't care when they were built, if you buy a property that is near

Thats whyI checked when they were built. IF a property was built BEFORE the club opened, and IF (however unlikely) the original owners or their direct descendants still lived there, they would have the most legitimate voice of the crowed.
 
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