The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

Spectre

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It was always baffling to me, I worked in fintech for a good while and one thing I learned is that Wall St is extremely risk averse and tends to do it’s homework.
Ideology and virtue signalling overcoming common sense and fiduciary responsibility, I suspect.
 

Spectre

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Not that we didn't know this before, buuuuuut: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teslas-secret-source-cash-finally-164120826.html

Tesla's Secret Source of Cash Has Finally Been Revealed

For years, Tesla Inc. has hauled in revenue by selling credits to other carmakers that needed to offset sales of polluting vehicles to U.S. consumers. These sorts of transactions have largely been shrouded in secrecy—until now.

General Motors Co. and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV disclosed to the state of Delaware earlier this year that they reached agreements to buy federal greenhouse gas credits from Tesla. While the filings are light on detail, they haven’t been reported on previously. They also represent the first acknowledgments from carmakers that they’re turning to Tesla for help to comply with intensifying U.S. environmental regulations.

The deal with GM will come as a surprise to those who thought years of sales of plug-in hybrid Chevrolet Volts and all-electric Chevy Bolts would leave the largest U.S. automaker in the clear with regard to regulatory compliance. But while sales of those models have put GM in a position where it doesn’t need extra credits today, demand for its battery-powered vehicles are dwarfed by its gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs. And the company wants to bank the credits for future years when emissions rules get tougher—especially if a Democrat beats President Donald Trump in 2020.

“This might not be a bad hedge,” said Mike Taylor, the founder and president of Emission Advisors, a Houston-based environmental credit consultant and broker. “If a Democrat gets elected in 2020, GM may need the credits and prices may go up.”

The filings offer almost no detail on the terms of Tesla’s credit sales to GM or Fiat Chrysler, whose past purchases of credits haven’t been disclosed directly but could be inferred from U.S. Environmental Protection Agency reports. A Tesla spokesman didn’t immediately comment.

GM’s Hedge

GM’s agreement to buy greenhouse gas credits was dated Feb. 25 and reported to Delaware the following day. Pat Morrissey, a GM spokesman, said the company is buying the credits as insurance against “future regulatory uncertainties.”

Fiat Chrysler disclosed agreements to buy credits from Tesla that were reached in 2016, 2018 and earlier this year, in four separate filings. Eric Mayne, a spokesman for the Italian-American automaker, said U.S. standards are getting stricter at a pace that “far exceeds” the level of consumer demand for electric cars that is required for compliance.

“Until demand catches up with regulatory requirements, and there is regulatory relief, we will use credits as appropriate,” Mayne said.

Tesla’s Haul

Tesla has generated almost $2 billion in revenue from selling regulatory credits since 2010. Its home state of California has a mandate that requires carmakers to sell zero-emission vehicles, or ZEVs, in proportion to their share of the state’s auto market, which is the largest in the country.

If manufacturers don’t sell enough non-polluting vehicles, they have to purchase credits from competitors like Tesla to make up the difference. A similar credit system is administered at the federal level by the EPA and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

GM’s credit purchases illustrate how challenging the U.S. fuel efficiency requirements are getting, even for automakers that are adding more zero-emission vehicles to their lineup. In March, Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra announced the company would spend $300 million and add 400 workers at its plant north of Detroit where the Chevy Bolt is built to add production of another fully electric model.

While all automakers complied with U.S. rules in model year 2017, most large manufacturers cashed in credits to get there, the EPA said in a March report. Of all the credits held by the industry at end of the 2017 model year, more than 90% are set to expire at the end of 2021 if not used, according to the agency.

More Meaningful

While Tesla’s sales of regulatory credits have been limited to the U.S. and California, it also has opportunities ahead to generate revenue from Europe, which is implementing tougher emissions regulations. In April, Fiat Chrysler said it will pool its fleet with Tesla’s to comply with European Union standards.

During a call with prospective investors in Tesla’s offerings of new equity and convertible bonds earlier this month, Chief Financial Officer Zachary Kirkhorn said credit sales will be a more meaningful part of Tesla’s business in the coming years.

In addition to reporting $216 million in first-quarter revenue from the sale of regulatory credits, the carmaker disclosed in an April filing that it had booked $140 million in deferred revenue related to credit sales.

It’s unclear from the filing whether that revenue relates to the U.S. agreements that Tesla reached with GM and Fiat Chrysler, or the EU deal with Fiat Chrysler. Tesla hasn’t reported deferred revenue of credits in past quarterly or annual financial filings.
Video at link, too.
 

Spectre

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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/walmart-sues-tesla-over-solar-panel-roof-fires-2019-08-20?mod=bnbh

Walmart sues Tesla over solar-panel roof fires

Walmart Inc. is suing Tesla Inc. over a spate of roof fires at several Walmart stores in 2018 that the retailer alleges were caused by Tesla solar panels. "At each location, the fire had originated in the Tesla solar panels," according to a filing on Tuesday. "To state the obvious, properly designed, installed, inspected, and maintained solar systems do not spontaneously combust, and the occurrence of multiple fires involving Tesla's solar systems is but one unmistakable sign of negligence by Tesla," the complaint said. Tesla could not be immediately reached for comment. Shares of Tesla were down 0.4% in the extended session, matching the day's loss.
 

bone

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apparently tesla broke the "fastest 4 door" lap-record on laguna seca?
they took it from the jaguar project 8...

totally meaningless, but still well done! the project 8 is no slouch...
 

prizrak

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apparently tesla broke the "fastest 4 door" lap-record on laguna seca?
they took it from the jaguar project 8...

totally meaningless, but still well done! the project 8 is no slouch...
Just read about it actually, it was using some 3 engined (motored?) prototype they call “plaid drivetrain”.

They also reportedly have a slot booked at the ring for later this month to try and beat the Taycan.
 

katwalk

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Is this where this goes? Because i saw it on twitter and laughed:

Tesla squad car runs out of battery chasing suspect at high speed, California cops say
Teslas have plenty of advantages as police squad cars: They’re stealthy, cheap to refuel and environmentally friendly.

But those electric vehicle advantages don’t mean much if the battery’s not charged.
That’s what happened in Northern California last week, when a Fremont police officer driving a Tesla Model S patrol car led the pursuit of a felony suspect at speeds reaching 120 miles an hour — then noticed his electric vehicle was running out of power, and relayed to dispatch that he might have to give up the chase, the East Bay Times reported.
“I am down to six miles of battery on the Tesla so I may lose it here in a sec,” Officer Jesse Hartman said during the Sept. 20 pursuit in audio obtained by the Times. “If someone else is able, can they maneuver into the number one spot?”

Other officers took the pursuit from there, but it soon ended anyway because the chase was no longer safe, according to CBS SF, which reported that the vehicle in the chase “was later found abandoned in San Jose.”

“The Tesla wasn’t fully charged at the beginning of the shift,” a Fremont police spokesperson said, per CBS. “This unfortunately happens from time to time even in our vehicles that run on gas, if they aren’t re-fueled at the end of a shift.”
A Fremont police spokesperson said Hartman found a charger for the vehicle in San Jose, according to the Times. The Times reported that he asked fellow officers to take over “as the chase approached the Jacklin Road exit on Interstate 680 south in Milpitas.”

Police in Fremont — the East Bay city where Tesla manufactures vehicles and employs more than 10,000 workers — announced in January that they would soon roll out a Tesla patrol vehicle as part of a pilot program testing whether electric vehicles can meet law enforcement demands.

“We’ll know within six months to a year, either yes or no,” Fremont Police Capt. Sean Washington said at the time, according to the San Jose Mercury News.
The city bought the 2014 Tesla Model S 85 roughly a year earlier for $61,478.50 as a replacement for a 2007 Dodge Charger, which the department was retiring, police said. Since then, the department spent $4,447 on a light bar, ballistic barrier, push bumper and other modifications to make the vehicle road-ready, according to police.
Police said the car was “the only electric vehicle that met specifications for size, performance, battery range, and safety” needed in a fully functional patrol car. Those requirements include hard on and off braking and acceleration, as well as good steering and the ability to drive 40 to 70 miles daily, the department said.
The Tesla can drive 265 miles on one charge, according to Fremont police.

Fremont’s goal is to cut its greenhouse emissions 25 percent from 2005 levels by next year — and for that to happen, police have to play a role, the department said.

Buying a Ford Explorer to use as a patrol vehicle would cost $40,000, and require add-ons roughly as expensive as what police spent for the Tesla, the department said. But in just five years of use an Explorer would guzzle about $32,000 in gasoline and require $15,000 in maintenance, while a Tesla doesn’t need gas and could have fewer mechanical problems, according to the department.
 

DanRoM

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As the article stated, running out of juice can also happen to a petrol-powered car.
I'm more amazed that abandoning a pursuit due to safety reasons is done in the US. All your news helicopter footage didn't convey that possibility. ;)
 

bone

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good thing even the arctic has electricity, shouldn't be hard to have it charged again :p
 

JimCorrigan

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I got three words into the headline, muttered to myself “this has to be California”, and kept reading. I wasn’t disappointed.

I will say this: I’m genuinely curious as to what the maintenance costs could be over the long haul. I suspect that like taxis, police cars tend to live pretty rough lives.
 

prizrak

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I’d think maintenance would be much lower since electrics aren’t bothered by “idling” like ICE would, and there is no oil and such

Also to be fair in the incident above someone forgot to plug the damn thing in at the end of their shift, not really car’s fault.
 

GRtak

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I got three words into the headline, muttered to myself “this has to be California”, and kept reading. I wasn’t disappointed.

I will say this: I’m genuinely curious as to what the maintenance costs could be over the long haul. I suspect that like taxis, police cars tend to live pretty rough lives.

While not a direct comparison, that article does quote what a Ford Explorer would use over 5 years.

Buying a Ford Explorer to use as a patrol vehicle would cost $40,000, and require add-ons roughly as expensive as what police spent for the Tesla, the department said. But in just five years of use an Explorer would guzzle about $32,000 in gasoline and require $15,000 in maintenance, while a Tesla doesn’t need gas and could have fewer mechanical problems, according to the department.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article235472972.html#storylink=cpy
My problem with Tesla is not the car, it is the fanboys...

 
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