The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

Spectre

The Deported
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
36,851
Location
Dallas, Texas
Car(s)
00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Technology/federal-probe-launched-tesla-battery-defects-alarming-number/story?id=66722728

Federal probe launched into Tesla for possible battery defects after 'alarming number of car fires'







The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has launched an investigation into the possibility that battery defects in Tesla vehicles may have caused the cars to burst into flames.
The investigation will involve certain battery management system software updates in Model S and Model X vehicles made between 2012 and 2019 in response to an "alarming number of car fires that have occurred worldwide," according to a letter the agency sent to Al Prescott, Tesla's deputy general counsel, on Oct. 24.
The alleged defects in question are "high-voltage battery fires that are not related to collision or impact damage to the battery pack," according to the letter.



A Tesla car arrives at a service center in Los Angeles, March 4, 2019.

The federal agency is seeking to interview all past and present officers and employees who were involved with the design, engineering, analysis, modification, production, testing, assessment or evaluation of the battery management system, as well as those who had consideration or recognition of potential actual defects through forums such as field reports or complaints and had communication to or from zone representatives, dealers or other field locations.
The petitioner who requested an investigation is representing a plaintiff in a class action lawsuit filed in the Northern District of California that relates to the software updates. Tesla has until Nov. 28 to comply with the requests from the NHTSA, or it could face a fine up to $111.6 million.
The electric car company has faced a several issues involving its vehicles in recent months.



Tesla super chargers are shown in Mojave, Calif. July 10, 2019.

In February, a Florida man died after his Model S caught fire after crashing into a palm tree, but he could't get out because the electronic door handles wouldn't open.
In March, another Florida man died after he crashed into a tractor trailer while Autopilot was engaged in his 2018 Model S.
A representative for Tesla did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment.
Dunno about you guys, but to me designing a car lacking in life safety features like "the ability to get out of the car if the electronics fail" does seem to be more than a little bit stupid.
 
Last edited:

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT

JimCorrigan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,100
Location
Pacific Rim
Car(s)
HMCS Velvet Glove; The Last Samurai
prizrak said:
Interesting... so @LeVeL, @Spectre and myself got rimmed by half of this forum for making things political and/or shutting down debate but it's fine for you to attack me because I dare to disagree with you?
Also when I pointed out a couple of issues with BEVs (in response to others I might add) in a thread about the VW ID I get essentially threatened by the mods for "derailing" the thread, but you are going to call me out for ragging on Tesla in a thread that is literally fucking made to RAG ON TESLA. Where are the mods to threaten you to stop derailing this?
Because if his ilk didn’t have double standards, they’d have none at all.
 

SirEdward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
1,810
Location
Bologna, Italy
Car(s)
VW Golf MkV
Stop hating on electric cars bro, everything has small flaws, dying in a fire is not that serious!
Though it must be said that it's not -all- electric cars having that problems, but specifically Tesla: the hyperhyped, status-symboled, highly-fanaticized, car that is very interesting but rather normal and if you try to say that in public you get reprimended as if you had insulted God in a church or said even more terrible profanities like "cyclists are often a danger to themselves and the others".
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
12,919
FWIW a friend of mine posted this about his Model 3 after one year of ownership and 23k miles:

I've had no mechanical or electrical issues with [it] so far. Since I got it, I've added windshield washer fluid and rotated the tires twice.

It charges on a 240V x 30A circuit either at home or at work. I have averaged 300 Wh/mi, so at 10c/kWh it costs 3 c/mi to fuel, the equivalent of a gas car getting 80-100 MPG. On road trips, I recharge 220-290 miles away from [home] depending on weather conditions, and it takes 20 minutes to add 150 miles of range at the Supercharger. Cold weather reduces range more than going 80-85 MPH does relative to going 70. There has been no (<1%) battery degradation.

When I got it, it was rated at 271 hp and ran 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. It is noticeably faster now, after 3 software upgrades that added 5% each. I should take it to a dragstrip. It changes direction ferociously and rotates under power readily. I think Car and Driver missed how much the "sport" steering option improves it, and how to use the regenerative braking to get the car to turn in - it does not drive like a front-engined ICE car.

My only complaint is that Tesla still doesn't sell a trailer hitch for it in the US.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
Though it must be said that it's not -all- electric cars having that problems
Right and I never said that all EVs have that issue, in fact the only thing I have been saying about EVs in general is that, at current level of technology, they cannot fully replace ICE. They can for a relatively small subset of drivers but not as a general use case. I guess that means I hate em... 🤷‍♂️

I notice conspicuous absence of @bone... did someone run away when called out on their bullshit?
 
Last edited:

CrzRsn

Mr. Fedewhatever
DONOR
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
17,279
Location
Motor City, Michigan
Car(s)
13 Ford Mustang GT, 17 Ford Fiesta ST
I wonder how much of that is part of the PG&E forest fire power shutdown knocking out power to peoples' homes and therefore chargers and how much of that is just people who don't want to pay the power bill and waiting for their free turn at the supercharger. If its the former, than its no different than natural disasters causing fuel shortages at conventional gas stations.

Not saying most people are cheap bastards, but I do know they're out there. A friend of mine has a Model X, and he WILL NOT charge it at home. He will only charge it where he can get free power. Even when going out with friends, he will drive 20 minutes out of everyone's way to a place where he can plug in for free, then have someone else in the group drive him to the actual destination everyone is going to.... which really defeats the point if you're forcing someone to drive their ICE car a bunch more because you need to be driven to/from your electric car.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
I wonder how much of that is part of the PG&E forest fire power shutdown knocking out power to peoples' homes and therefore chargers and how much of that is just people who don't want to pay the power bill and waiting for their free turn at the supercharger. If its the former, than its no different than natural disasters causing fuel shortages at conventional gas stations.
I did some cursory looking into it before posting the video and it seems like this is due to holiday travel, as in people planning on stopping at this SC to be able to continue their trip.

But to your point RE:
While it's true that natural disasters can have similar effects on fuel supply (Sandy comes to mind in my own neck of the woods), there is still the fact that even with fuel shortages, ICE refueling times are significantly lower than EVs (takes about 3-5 minutes for me to fill Xterra's 20gal tank) so you still have a much quicker turn around. Also jerry cans :)
 
Last edited:

GRtak

Forum Addict
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
19,254
Location
Michigan USA
I did some cursory looking into it before posting the video and it seems like this is due to holiday travel, as in people planning on stopping at this SC to be able to continue their trip.
So by the logic you are using, nobody should fly because holiday travel is often a mess?
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
So by the logic you are using, nobody should fly because holiday travel is often a mess?
If you want to call what you are trying to do logic I can't stop you... While air travel sux massively there is no real alternative to it*, there is a very real, affordable and readily available alternative to EVs.

However my point is, as it has always been, that EV charging times** are a massive barrier to wide spread adoption.

*Once you factor in delays and such some of the shorter routes might make more sense via ground based transportation (say NYC to Boston) but those are mostly edge cases.
**Before you say there is a difference in infra, it would take at minimum 20 minutes to charge a standard model 3 to about 80% range, while it would take about 5 for me to fill up the Xterra once the light is on. (I purposefully chose a large tank vehicle, Mustang takes even less since the entire tank is 12 gallons and normal fill up is about 10).
 
Last edited:

CrzRsn

Mr. Fedewhatever
DONOR
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
17,279
Location
Motor City, Michigan
Car(s)
13 Ford Mustang GT, 17 Ford Fiesta ST
that just shows there aren't enough chargingpoints...
I think he means 20 minutes plugged into the charger, not waiting for it. Over the weekend I passed by a Tesla Supercharger at 11pm on my way to the grocery store and saw a Model X plugged in with a person sitting in it. I only noticed it because the red superchargers caught my eye and I haven't seen them there before, and the Model X had its DRLs on which I thought was odd until I saw the person sitting there. 30 minutes later, when I left the store they were still sitting there. Granted, I don't know the full situation there, they could've been waiting for someone or just sitting there getting some peace and quiet away from the family, but logically one would think they were there waiting to charge up since they were at the far dark end of a parking lot of a closed shopping plaza across a 6 lane road from the closest open business. To most people, having to wait 30 minutes before being able to continue a journey, be it a roadtrip or a local commute would be unacceptable - and that's what Priz is trying to say.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,304
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
So by the logic you are using, nobody should fly because holiday travel is often a mess?
I think a more fair way to put it is, obviously SOME people will find it worth it, but in general a lot of people will try to avoid it if possible because on a personal level it is not worth it.

The refueling/range issues is not a barrier to everyone owning electric cars, but it is a barrier for enough people that they will not be able to replace ICE yet.

Like ex, if they sold the 500e here, I would have checked it out as an option when I got the abarth because I could probably deal with the downsides thanks to the fact i have the bug. My mother if the subaru dies, will possibly be looking into getting one because she's old and won't want to drive too much, but affording one on her social security payment would be hard.

Obviously as tech advances this will become less of a problem (really looking forward to those rumored new battery things) but as things stand you ideally need 2 cars to run an electric one and a lot of people cannot even afford the one gas one.

Idk about other people but I DO want electric cars to become viable for everyone. But I also, if they are gonna full on replace ICE cars, have high standards. I have faith they will reach that eventually but they aren't there yet.

(Also somewhat random thought i had though? There are towns around here running standard buses off of a trolly line and honestly i cannot help but wonder.... could you run something like a tesla off one? Idk enough about that to tell but it seems like something worth considering)
 
Last edited:

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
that just shows there aren't enough chargingpoints...
To most people, having to wait 30 minutes before being able to continue a journey, be it a roadtrip or a local commute would be unacceptable
That and I am also saying that charge times have a domino effect. A gas station with as many pumps as this lot (I counted 13) could have had all these cars out in under 15 minutes.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
if they are gonna full on replace ICE cars, have high standards.
That’s exactly what I been saying, currently going EV only is a step backwards for a vast majority of people.

But wait! There is more!
The Drive said:
extremely crowded Supercharger stations that turned a promised fast stop into an hours-long slog to recharge
The Drive said:
One Facebook clip shows a line measuring roughly a quarter mile in length, consisting of 50-odd Teslas waiting at a Supercharger in Kettleman City, California, just off Interstate 5.
The Drive said:
but even its 40 stalls aren't enough to accommodate the increased demand, especially when all that simultaneous recharging lowers the speed for everyone.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving
 
Last edited:

bone

"bangle for president"
DONOR
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
16,538
Location
belgium!!
Car(s)
Volvo V40 & Yamaha Banshee
I think he means 20 minutes plugged into the charger, not waiting for it. Over the weekend I passed by a Tesla Supercharger at 11pm on my way to the grocery store and saw a Model X plugged in with a person sitting in it. I only noticed it because the red superchargers caught my eye and I haven't seen them there before, and the Model X had its DRLs on which I thought was odd until I saw the person sitting there. 30 minutes later, when I left the store they were still sitting there. Granted, I don't know the full situation there, they could've been waiting for someone or just sitting there getting some peace and quiet away from the family, but logically one would think they were there waiting to charge up since they were at the far dark end of a parking lot of a closed shopping plaza across a 6 lane road from the closest open business. To most people, having to wait 30 minutes before being able to continue a journey, be it a roadtrip or a local commute would be unacceptable - and that's what Priz is trying to say.
i agree with that.
i don't know a single person with an EV car that doesn't just charge at home
people who solely rely on SC are stupid
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
i agree with that.
i don't know a single person with an EV car that doesn't just charge at home
people who solely rely on SC are stupid
These are people traveling somewhere outside of their car’s range so they have to recharge at some point on their journey.
 
Top