The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

eizbaer

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But they have heated glass, don't they? I always thought mine did, but I actually can't find a clear answer. It's pretty dumb to not have heated glass on a car at that price.
No, not in the front. 🤷‍♂️

Funny thing is: it’s a Problem caused by a combination of software and design causing the system to just shut down. It’s not that it can’t work at those low temps. So they’re gonna fix it with software, it seems. Let’s see.
 

Perc

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Sweden's Teknikens Värld did a winter test with four EVs: Tesla Model Y, BMW iX, Volvo C40 and Kia EV6.

The iX had to be abandoned at the beginning of the test because the heater stopped working and the dealer couldn't fix it, so the four-car road test turned into a three-car one.

The EV6 dash lit up like a Christmas tree but the dealer managed to fix it and the car performed as designed for the remainder of the test.

The C40 is a more expensive and less practical XC40. There's no point in buying it unless you like the design, much like the BMW X6 over the X5.

They did a "cold start" test in -19°C, measuring how long it took to reach 20°C at shoulder level in the front. Volvo took 5 min 53 secs. The Kia almost 11 minutes. They gave up testing the Tesla after 15 minutes, at which point it had reached 19°.

The EV6 was by far the most comfortable car of the three, while the Tesla was universally hated for the total lack of comfort. "Did they do the suspension development on a polished concrete floor or what?" Driving the Tesla also meant constant steering inputs to force it to track straight.

(Remember, fennoscandinavian roads are coarse and usually have deep grooves in them from the studded tires most people are using. These conditions expose bad sound insulation and bad chassis setups. My old V70 turbo with its factory spec wheels and tires was a complete shitshow to drive. The next owner changed to smaller wheels with narrower tires (from the N/A version) and it totally transformed the car. My Insignia with even wider rubber was fine, though)

Tesla obviously scored points for its charging network. The other cars experienced broken chargers and whatnot but the Tesla always had a supercharger nearby. They also liked the range of the Model Y.

While the Tesla interior felt minimalist and nice on short trips, longer trips left something to be desired. Fiddly heater controls and no speedometer in front of you, etc.

The Kia's trim level came with matrix LEDs as standard, but they were feeble and slow to react. Tesla had auto-dipping LEDs that got confused by houses next to the road and sometimes flashed oncoming drivers. Just like my Opel did and my Passat does, by the way. The Volvo C40 had matrix LEDs that performed flawlessly and had good light output.

The Kia had the best AWD system when tested on rollers. All three cars were competent at shuffling power between the front and rear as needed (no wonder, they've all got twin engines) but Kia had the best side-to-side differential behavior with Tesla coming in on second place.
 
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Matt2000

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No, not in the front. 🤷‍♂️
Genuinely surprising, however that explains why the snow on the car didn't melt/slide off when I remotely turned on the climate once. When I see this icon:

1642250553100.png


I would usually think that it means heated screen, as that's what it was in my old Discovery. Clearly not the case! The Miata has it as a vent setting on the same dial that is pressed in for the rear heated screen. Anyway, it might've been a deal breaker had I understood it had no heating elements built in.
 

Perc

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What VAG brand is that from? The Climatronic in my B8 Fridge looks slightly different but it's obviously the same panel.

I don't have a heated windshield but i do have a Webasto, with a button conveyed by yet another kind of wiggly line symbol.

1642257587271.png


It seems cars that lack Webasto have REST there instead. Either way the engineers had a spare button so they decided to write MAX A/C on it instead of making it a blank. No idea what that's useful for, I trust that the climate control brain does whatever it needs to to achieve desired temperature.

While googling for this picture I also found a version with "Clean Air" instead of Max A/C. I have that in the settings somewhere.
 

narf

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What VAG brand is that from? The Climatronic in my B8 Fridge looks slightly different but it's obviously the same panel.

I don't have a heated windshield but i do have a Webasto, with a button conveyed by yet another kind of wiggly line symbol.

View attachment 3563671

It seems cars that lack Webasto have REST there instead. Either way the engineers had a spare button so they decided to write MAX A/C on it instead of making it a blank. No idea what that's useful for, I trust that the climate control brain does whatever it needs to to achieve desired temperature.

While googling for this picture I also found a version with "Clean Air" instead of Max A/C. I have that in the settings somewhere.
:dunno: random google image search.

As for max AC, I'm guessing regular AC will weigh speed-to-cool with noise/efficiency/blower-comfort/whatever, and max AC prioritizes cooling over everything.

I wish my 2er had a sync button instead of max AC :shakefist:
1642258291540.png

But, six wiggly lines :lmao:
Possibly a seventh at the heated steering wheel button but I never look at it because it's on the lower side of the steering column.
 

Perc

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Ah yes, steering wheel heater.

The seat heaters in my Passat works the usual way: 3-2-1-off in an infinite loop as you prod the buttons. The steering wheel heater on the other hand is on the right side of the gear selector, conveniently hidden by the lever when it’s in D. There are three settings here as well, but the button just turns iton and off. To change the setting you need to go knee deep into the climate settings, and even when set to “high” it heats up slower than the Insignia did which is a bit disappointing.

On the other hand, in the Passat you can drive with it on for extended periods of time if you want. In the Insignia it was either Off or Very On, clearly designed to be used to thaw the rim and your fingers and turned off after that.

The Passat turns off Sync every time I use the “max defrost” button which is annoying, but not as annoying as the Opel which turned A/C and Sync off every time I used the Eberspächer, which means 2-3 times every day in winter.
 

eizbaer

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After the recent software update my car now shows two temperature settings (Like in Percy pic, only… you know, all on screen). One for driver, one for passenger. It shows both even if I have sync on (ok I guess to enable the passenger to adjust without reaching over), but also shows the passenger temp when there’s no passenger there! It’s actually supposed to go away when there’s no one there… and the car knows there isn’t anyone, otherwise it would bug me about the seatbelt! This annoys me more than it should… there’s countless videos on YouTube where this works For other people for some reason. So how can it just not work for me? 🤔 uhgghghhghgh

also so many apologists for the horrible new v11 updated UI and its shortcomings trying to explain how the changes are supposed to be better somehow. No. Just no. Fucking fanbois.

oh, heated wheel: is this something you have to experience to realize you need? Like an ssd or fast internet? Because I’ve never thought I wanted a heated wheel…
 

Perc

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oh, heated wheel: is this something you have to experience to realize you need? Like an ssd or fast internet? Because I’ve never thought I wanted a heated wheel…

It’s really nice when it’s cold outside, even if the car is pre-heated, or ”preconditioned” as you EV kids like to call it these days. :p
 

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NooDle

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It’s really nice when it’s cold outside, even if the car is pre-heated, or ”preconditioned” as you EV kids like to call it these days. :p

Preconditioned is something else, it’s setting the temperature to something comfortable remotely without needing to start the car. Or do those eberspacher units allow for remote cooling aswell?
 

Perc

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Preconditioned is something else, it’s setting the temperature to something comfortable remotely without needing to start the car. Or do those eberspacher units allow for remote cooling aswell?

Ventilation, yes. It just runs the HVAC fan. Actual refrigeration, no, because that requires running the engine.

Still, a car starts producing frigid air within seconds after starting so to me it’s not as big of a deal. In winter you have an entire glasshouse to defrost before you can drive anywhere.
 

leviathan

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After the recent software update my car now shows two temperature settings (Like in Percy pic, only… you know, all on screen). One for driver, one for passenger. It shows both even if I have sync on (ok I guess to enable the passenger to adjust without reaching over), but also shows the passenger temp when there’s no passenger there! It’s actually supposed to go away when there’s no one there… and the car knows there isn’t anyone, otherwise it would bug me about the seatbelt! This annoys me more than it should… there’s countless videos on YouTube where this works For other people for some reason. So how can it just not work for me? 🤔 uhgghghhghgh

oh, heated wheel: is this something you have to experience to realize you need? Like an ssd or fast internet? Because I’ve never thought I wanted a heated wheel…
Yeah, this doesn't work for me either - I think EU software may be different / bugged (it's hard to tell sometimes) in this regard. I'd also much like to have the temp only shown once, I turn off Sync on very rare occasions only.

And yes, I think a heated wheel is one of those things. Mom had it in her Opel and has it now in the Mach-E, and it's one of the few features I'm genuinely missing in the 3 :) Thankfully newer ones have them, so my next will as well.
 

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Not from what I’ve seen and experienced. The 2019 Ford S-Max I rented had front windshield heat wires in it.

I didn’t know VW offered that in the US as I thought the front glass couldn’t be obstructed by anything.

Our VW is the first-year e-Golf ("Special [pleb] edition"), so if that is a law, maybe this was low-volume-enough to get a waiver.
 

Perc

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A heated windshield is very much a Ford thing in Europe. I wonder if they have a patent on it, because nobody else has it.

Then again I bet a heated windshield costs several orders of magnitude more to replace than a normal one when (not if) they wear down or crack.
 

narf

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A heated windshield is very much a Ford thing in Europe. I wonder if they have a patent on it, because nobody else has it.

Then again I bet a heated windshield costs several orders of magnitude more to replace than a normal one when (not if) they wear down or crack.
Certainly more common on Fords for longer, but not an exclusive. The Octavia III could have it too, for example.

PS: apparently developed by Ford in 1985: https://media.ford.com/content/ford...0-jahre-beheizbare-frontscheibe-von-ford.html
 

Perc

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The Octavia III could have it too, for example.

In that case, why doesn't I have it, and why don't my parents have it? All three of us drive MQB cars and it should be an absolute no-brainer around these parts. Dammit. :shakefist:

edit: Many years back I was waiting for a taxi with three friends. It was cold and raining. The taxi arrived, it was a Mondeo. We all got in and consequently the windows all fogged up. The taxi driver pressed a button which cleared his windshield within ten seconds. Seriously, why don't all cars have this? I thought it was a Ford exclusive until now, and my theory is that Ford and Opel customers see every optional extra as an unnecessary trinket that will cost money when it breaks.
 
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