The Israel / Palestine mire (again)

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
All of them? No. Most of them? I recon. And what's the alternative that Israel is pursuing? No Palestine but palestinian ghettos with a fence around them scattered across Israel? What is the actual plan?

 
Last edited:

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,266
All of them? No. Most of them? I recon. And what's the alternative that Israel is pursuing? No Palestine but palestinian ghettos with a fence around them scattered across Israel? What is the actual plan?
I think most people that aren't Palestinians favor a two state solution but that's not a realistic goal as long as the Palestinians remain devoted to the complete destruction of Israel. Since most people also don't favor the extermination of the Palestinians (because, unlike them, we aren't savages), we end up at a stalemate, of sorts, doing the same old thing while waiting for the Palestinians to finally abandon terrorism and recognize the state of Israel, at which time a two state solution actually becomes realistic.

And before anyone cries a river and calls me Islamaphobic or xenophobic or some other nonsense, go read the official Hamas charter - you know, Hamas, the terrorist organization that the peace-loving Palestinians elected. It's very explicit about killing every single Jew in the world.
 

GRtak

Forum Addict
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
20,915
Location
Michigan USA
Until you are treated the way the Palestinians are by Isreal, you won't understand why, or how they have become so "savage". If you were, you would be leading the way as a terrorist yourself.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,266
Israel sends food and medical supplies to Palestine and builds schools and hospitals there, which the Palestinians just use to send rockets to Israel. A genuine two state solution was on the table from the very beginning and the Arabs flat-out declined to even consider it.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
Israel sends food and medical supplies to Palestine and builds schools and hospitals there, which the Palestinians just use to send rockets to Israel. A genuine two state solution was on the table from the very beginning and the Arabs flat-out declined to even consider it.

While I support Israel, I have to be historically fair here. The Brits first promised that the land would be given to the Arabs living there at the time, then Nazis happened so the Brits and the UN were like "well now this place is a state of Palestine and Israel". Of course the "Palestinians" didn't take too kindly to that, who the hell would?

I don't see a two state solution happening the only way I can see it happening is a mixed government that takes into account both parties, otherwise only solution is... well see that Dalek I posted above.
 

Firecat

Politically Charged
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
5,730
the irony. The Palestinians (who aren't recognized) must first recognize Israel (which is internationally recognized).

But let's get real. All of these "issues" are bullshit. The right wing of Israel does not want a Palestinian state. Fortunately, there are significant segments of the population that do. And vice versa on the Palestinian side.

The fact that we are letting right wing extremists remain in control over matters is the problem.
 

Firecat

Politically Charged
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
5,730
So the Israeli Knesset passed a bill to retroactively legalize thousands of homes in the west bank and unauthorized ones as well (so beyond where existing settlements are). But i'm not posting here to get into that.

It passed the Knesset in a vote of 60-52 after a very contentious debate. The Attorney General is likely to fight it and I don't think it will be upheld in the Supreme Court. It just goes to show that at least in Israel there is debate when it comes to their relationship with the Palestinians, which is non-existent within the power structures in the United States. That same bill would probably be passed unanimously in Congress.
 

laxmax613

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
4,071
Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
Car(s)
Merkavim Mars
So the Israeli Knesset passed a bill to retroactively legalize thousands of homes in the west bank and unauthorized ones as well (so beyond where existing settlements are). But i'm not posting here to get into that.

It passed the Knesset in a vote of 60-52 after a very contentious debate. The Attorney General is likely to fight it and I don't think it will be upheld in the Supreme Court. It just goes to show that at least in Israel there is debate when it comes to their relationship with the Palestinians, which is non-existent within the power structures in the United States. That same bill would probably be passed unanimously in Congress.

Netanyahu's cynical approach is fucked. We lefties here are livid.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,266
Continuing the discussion from the Trump thread where no one was able to refute my claims that Arabs have never wanted any Jewish state to exist:

Shapiro goes full savage on the UN. Watch from 2:00 to 10:00

[video=youtube;qV1sZ1vc-L8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV1sZ1vc-L8[/video]
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,266
You remind me of a woman I had to deal with for work once. Her response to my finding errors in her work was "I right, you wrong" and she wouldn't discuss it any further.
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
6,344
Location
near Cologne
LeVeL;n3543584 said:
You remind me of a woman I had to deal with for work once. Her response to my finding errors in her work was "I right, you wrong" and she wouldn't discuss it any further.
You're projecting again.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,266
And you've taken us off-topic again and made this personal. Try to focus on the topic at hand for once.
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
6,344
Location
near Cologne
LeVeL;n3543588 said:
And you've taken us off-topic again and made this personal. Try to focus on the topic at hand for once.
You might want to start with something other than "no one can prove me wrong" if you don't wish to create the impression that all of this is deeply personal to you.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
calvinhobbes;n3543593 said:
You might want to start with something other than "no one can prove me wrong" if you don't wish to create the impression that all of this is deeply personal to you.

You might want to start with some facts that refute his claims.
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
6,344
Location
near Cologne
prizrak;n3543599 said:
You might want to start with some facts that refute his claims.
Other things that would be just as pointless include trying to convince him that gun regulations can make sense. Discussing politics with LeVeL just doesn't work if you disagree with him.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,601
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
calvinhobbes;n3543602 said:
Other things that would be just as pointless include trying to convince him that gun regulations can make sense. Discussing politics with LeVeL just doesn't work if you disagree with him.

Well I could really say the same about you, at least on guns. You also tend to stick to your opinions.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
13,266
calvinhobbes, this is basically what arguing with you is like:


We each present arguments and when I dismantle yours you come back with "it's pointless to argue with you". No, it's not - you're just completely unwilling/unable to consider my arguments. ON topics of Israel and guns I am pretty well versed and you are utterly unwilling/unable to debate me.
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
6,344
Location
near Cologne
prizrak;n3543605 said:
Well I could really say the same about you, at least on guns. You also tend to stick to your opinions.
The difference is that I don't see this as a competitive sport where you insult the opposing team and its supporters.

And in your case, I do believe we've agreed to disagree more than once. I also don't remember you telling those who disagree with you that their cognition leaves much to be desired. ;-)

Edit: See the post directly above this one for a prime example of exactly what I mean. :lol:
 
Last edited:

Firecat

Politically Charged
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
5,730
LeVeL;n3543573 said:
Continuing the discussion from the Trump thread where no one was able to refute my claims that Arabs have never wanted any Jewish state to exist:

Shapiro goes full savage on the UN. Watch from 2:00 to 10:00

Firstly, we need to take “Jewish” away from “state”....because I’m fine with Israel existing, I don’t necessarily think it has to be considered “Jewish” ....defacto it is.

but it’s a silly discussion to have because Israel exists, so it doesn’t really matter what Arabs think. Same argument can be made about Israelis or Jews....they don’t want a Palestinian state to exist.....the difference of course is that a Palestinian State doesn’t exist....so their “will” has proved more consequential.
 
Top