The Martial Arts Thread

jlee221

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i know karate, kung-fu, and 47 other dangerous words.

seriously though, being korean, i've been in some form of martial arts since i was like 4 or 5 years old.

started out with taekwondo and got up to orange belt. really didn't like it since all it ended up being was the stupid form stuff and lots of pointless kicking and punching. i wanted to SPAR!!!

left TKD and started hapkido. did that for a number of years and got a first degree black belt. i left hapkido eventually because while i was learning a lot of stuff about self defense and sparring almost every week, it just wasn't for me. the teacher taught us a lot of cool stuff... he let the black belts sit in the classes with the police and military. but like i said, it just wasn't for me. plus, it was really getting in the way of schoolwork.

while i was still doing hapkido, an older gentleman at my church had this judo program going at church. it would meet every sunday after church. all i saw was an old-school type of teaching and no pressure to really worry about belt testing and stuff. it was all about the technique. i really liked it and continued judo after even leaving hapkido. got up to brown belt some degree... i forget (since anyone under 18 couldn't get a black belt).

i also tried kendo for about 7 months. it was just waaaaaaaay too intense for me. plus i developed a clicking shoulder so i stopped.

i moved to florida to start college and such and haven't found a decent school to start up again. =/ i guess that's the way it is.
 

P5138

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Around when I was 13 I did American Kick Boxing for a while and loved it, now 10 years on I just joined a "Mixed Martial Arts" class and am hating myself for ever stopping with kick boxing. I got all weak and inflexible in the long hiatus between leaving and going back to a fighting discipline of any sort.
 

DaBoom

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As a kid I tried a bit of Aikido and later about a year of Karate do shotokai (iirc).

Finally got back to the martial arts path in 2004 with taekwondo. Only at 7 kup(yellow/green), as I only trained for a year and a half before moving town, and couldn't get comfortable with the new club. I've still kept training on my own though. Joined taido club in 2008 and have been doing that since, although I've had long breaks with plenty of injuries (shoulder, wrist, ankles, knees). Still, if I can keep myself in one piece I'm going for 2 kuy (brown belt) this summer/fall. :) And as you might guess from my selection of styles I prefer more choreographical way of doing things. Instead of competitions or sparring I'm more into body control and challenging techniques.

I also did a basics course in submission wrestling few years back as well, but had to drop out from there as well because of injuries. :lol: I'd love to continue with that again, as well as trying aikido again. And judo, maybe systema and wrestling. :D I just don't have the time. And if I do, after taido, taekwondo is first in line.
 

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I dont like martial arts in their current modern "we'll give a blackbelt to anyone" mode. I did a year of self defense classes which was a mish mush of various martial art pieces all aimed to real self defense in street danger situations, anything goes kinda way. We trained with protections but full contact, as in, not for points but until someone has the clear upper hand. Striking and grappling and small joint manipulation, etc.
 

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I did Judo and Jujutsu for a couple of years when I was younger. Never graded as I always seemed to be injured when grading came along.

And I agree with mpicco. Did some IT training with a guy that was a Black Belt in some form of Karate. Was told he went from Start to Black Belt in a year. I could never understand how until I visited the class. I don't think it was a recognised form of anything. Bouncing the Senpai across the mat wasn't that difficult. The Sensei not so much...
 

DaBoom

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I dont like martial arts in their current modern "we'll give a blackbelt to anyone" mode. I did a year of self defense classes which was a mish mush of various martial art pieces all aimed to real self defense in street danger situations, anything goes kinda way. We trained with protections but full contact, as in, not for points but until someone has the clear upper hand. Striking and grappling and small joint manipulation, etc.
Yeah, can't argue with that. Worst examples of this seems to be from US (biased of course, as that's probably the easiest place to find info in English). It also seems to be a habit to make everything as competitive and as practical as possible, which just doesn't work for all styles. That's why US version of taido isn't recognized and they don't even compete in world championship tournaments.

And regarding belts, while I'm going for 2 kyu already I'm still at least 3 years away before I can be recommended for grading to 1 dan. Same thing with taekwondo here. Iirc I'd need at least 4 years still for a black belt. So at least around here there's some value and reward in those belts.. :)
edit: And there's age limitations as well. 15 for brown belt and 18 for black belt. The idea of a 11-12 year old with a black belt is rather amusing to me.. :D
 
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mpicco

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You know how I'd do it? To become a black belt, you gotta beat a black belt. If a black belt is challenged and beat 5 times, he goes to a the lower rank. Then you'll see real masters with black belts.
 

Redliner

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You know how I'd do it? To become a black belt, you gotta beat a black belt. If a black belt is challenged and beat 5 times, he goes to a the lower rank. Then you'll see real masters with black belts.

I think I agree with that.

Too many people get black belts as an award, not an achievement. That's bullshit.
 

sifu

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I did karate for 2 weeks when I was 8. In practice kicked my teacher to his throat and suddenly leveled up so much that i had to retire.
 

DaBoom

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You know how I'd do it? To become a black belt, you gotta beat a black belt. If a black belt is challenged and beat 5 times, he goes to a the lower rank. Then you'll see real masters with black belts.
It also seems to be a habit to make everything as competitive and as practical as possible, which just doesn't work for all styles.
:rolleyes:

I understand your point of view though, as you seem to be more inclined to self defence / full contact sort of styles. But the problem with match oriented grade system would be that it can discourage diversity of moves. While that is good for effectiveness, it's bad for traditional forms. If you look at UFC for example, fighters quickly did away with much of traditional styles they started with, and adapted the combination that has best parts of BJJ, wresting, muay thai and the sort. And while that's very effective, it has very little to do with the original form any more. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I prefer traditions. :)

But more importantly (to me at least), especially black belt carries a lot more values than just ability to haul ass. :p The most important to me being teaching abilities and your skill to adapt according to your students. I know a few teacher type black belts who can give good advice even for match use, even if they don't compete at all. The other big point is understanding the basics and meanings of the style you're practicing. I love discovering the reason for every small detail of a stance/kick/punch/whatever after you've just repeated it for thousands of times without too much thought. And I've had plenty of these discoveries after forceful slowing down due to injuries. This is how I see traditional styles at least. To my understanding at least BJJ goes with the level up with matches -type of approach.

As one might guess from my more philosophical approach to martial arts, I have never had the need to fight, nor have I been in a real fight. I believe in verbal self defence and karata, if I end up in a threatening situation. :D

- - - Updated - - -

On a somewhat related note, stumbled across this today. :D

 
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Redliner

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To each his own.
You have a valid point, but I prefer to train something that is "useful". :)
 

mpicco

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:rolleyes:

I understand your point of view though, as you seem to be more inclined to self defence / full contact sort of styles. But the problem with match oriented grade system would be that it can discourage diversity of moves. While that is good for effectiveness, it's bad for traditional forms. If you look at UFC for example, fighters quickly did away with much of traditional styles they started with, and adapted the combination that has best parts of BJJ, wresting, muay thai and the sort. And while that's very effective, it has very little to do with the original form any more. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I prefer traditions. :)
Well if you value just form and grace and stuff, it's not a martial art, it's a performance art. If you're grading people based on their dancing skills with belts, then I agree. But leave the word "Martial" out of it.
When you give a black belt to any moron like the people shown above in the videos Redliner posted, or when you give it to someone who hasn't even achieved full body maturity, then you're saying a lot about how lowly your "martial" art is...

I got my black belts in Taekwondo and Kung Fu when I was 12. Started around age 5 - 6. Taekwondo is useless for the most part just really flashy and fun to do / watch. The Kung Fu is a bit more practical as that's where I got all my weapons training.
I don't care who you are, if you're 12, I will probably kick your ass.
martial
?m???(?)l/
adjective
1.
relating to fighting or war.
Remember martial arts did originate as self defense, and war/fighting techniques. The whole "beauty of the form" comes in a completely different page, I guess.

Also, relevant :

 
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DaBoom

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Well if you value just form and grace and stuff, it's not a martial art, it's a performance art. If you're grading people based on their dancing skills with belts, then I agree. But leave the word "Martial" out of it.
Oh, stop being so one minded.. :D Your attitude sounds very much like what many traditional schools seem to have thought of themselves in the past, that there's a single best way to do everything. Before people like H?lio Gracie and Gene Lebelle beat some sense in to them. :D As the commentator said in the video I posted, There is no good or bad martial art, it's up to you to find the martial art that suits you best.

But if you want to think like like that, then you should take the art out of your martial art. ;)

art
??t/
noun
noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts

1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
Remember martial arts did originate as self defense, and war/fighting techniques. The whole "beauty of the form" comes in a completely different page, I guess.
Believe it or not, but traditional forms do have some useful things in them for real life situations as well, even if they're not as apparent or direct as some things taught in MMA/self defence styles. Remember, all modern, practical styles have their roots in traditional styles. And I would still prefer talking my way out of, or running away from a fight. Much less risks involved.

I'm assuming here, but you're aiming for the best and most direct way of hurting (or affecting) your opponent, be it in real life or with some form of rules. I would call this approach a fighting system, if you want to discard the term (and dispite the words, that's all it is, to me at least) martial art. For me, fighting systems and performance arts are both evolution and branches from the same martial arts tree. And with performance art I mean stuff like XMA. Opposite to fighting systems, performance arts use the basics of movement from various styles to create something purely for aesthetic show (competition is based on points for purity of execution), whereas fighting systems take and apply the most effective moves needed for the purpose. With all that said, I do use different terms for these different approaches in Finnish. The most used literal translation for martial art would be fighting style, mostly used by people who know nothing about it. I prefer to use combat sport for anything that has a competitive side with some form of rules.

And since this is a car forum, I'll make a car simile. :cool: All modern cars have a history of older models behind them, and some have developed to be very good and specialized in very specific areas of motoring. Very much like with martial arts, I like older, more basic cars and keeping them in their original state. I don't mind minor upgrades here or there, but I like respecting the original form. In every measurable way older cars will get beaten by modern cars, but I couldn't care less, as I'm not too interested in cars you need to measure to prove they are better. My current daily driver is from 2005, has 265hp, sport suspension etc. Still, I get way more enjoyment out of my 1975 95hp beater, even if it would get trampled on a track. And just like with my view of martial arts, not everyone would (or should) agree with this. But the point is that you have the option to do anything you like :)


When you give a black belt to any moron like the people shown above in the videos Redliner posted, or when you give it to someone who hasn't even achieved full body maturity, then you're saying a lot about how lowly your "martial" art is...
I don't care who you are, if you're 12, I will probably kick your ass.
I still agree with you on the age thing, as I said before, even if it's for a different reason. While you might copy the physical form perfectly, it's very rare you see beyond that when you're too young. Concepts like how to use and apply your skills to varying situations, or when to hold back only come with age and experience. With power comes responsibility and all that. In Finland at least the few styles I know something about all have age limits for higher ranks, as well as their nation wide federation to enforce equality (and quality) in grading.

Also, relevant :


While I like Penn&Teller very much, they sometimes start with such a prejudice that everything will drown in that. Like the initial presumption that you're paying money to buy self defence, no matter what style you pick. When I first saw this I was astounded by their view, that all martial arts are practiced just for self defence. What about enjoyable way of keeping yourself in shape and improving your dexterity, balance, self discipline..? In that sense the skeptic guy had a good point about the way martial arts are taught in US, it seems. And that old woman was clearly asked to be there just so they could make fun of the meditational side of martial arts. While most of tai chi has very little to do with combat, it has roots in martial arts and can be a great addition for improving your balance and concentration, for example.



TL DR This is rather pointless, as you seem to have made up your mind on this matter already. But being open minded helps. There's always different ways, with everything. :)
 
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DaBoom

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I killed the conversation quite effectively, it seems. :D

How much do you guys train/practice at home, and what kind of stuff if you do? I rarely copy or repeat stuff we work at at the gym, but most things I do are designed to improve my gymnastic and martial arts skills. The reason I'm asking is my sudden evening workout, as I've missed my practice for over two weeks now because of car stuff. I did a set of 500 kicks and I'm sure I'll feel it tomorrow, as I haven't done much exercise in that two weeks I've been busy.
 

Redliner

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I don't train at home.
I usually barely have time to go to the gym, let alone train at home.
 

Richmondgal

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I totally forgot I made this thread 5 years ago.

Update: Somehow despite having knee problems I just made it to 2nd Dan.
 
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